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Old 06-11-2014, 12:54 PM   #1
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Default M1 Garand Problems

As an avid WWII buff, I purchased my first rifle, an M1 Garand from a FFL at a local gunshow about 2.5 years ago and took it to the range just last weekend to shoot it for the 1st time. It is in Excellent condition and even received offers to buy it before I made it to the bench. I purchased brass civilian 30-.06 shells to use and after much discussion with one of the range officers fired 3 rounds loaded individually(1 at a time) instead of using one of the ammo clips I had loaded. After inspecting each spent casing after each shot(of which I hit the red at 50 yds for each, which I was surprisingly impressed with), there was a noticeable ring near the base of each spent case in exactly the same place, which the range officer warned about getting checked out before continuing to avoid any potential "blast back", which I have.

Is anyone familiar with this problem/situation and any potential "chamber issues" related to it?

I have not contacted the FFL yet, and per the range officer's suggestion tried looking up the local Springfield Armory located in/near Halethorpe, per his suggestion, but a Google search provided no information about such armory other than the one in Springfiled Mass.

Was told to contact "Mark", the owner there, but have no contact info available and wanted to see if anyone has had or heard of any similar problems?

The range officer indicated that even though "civilian grade ammo" brass shells/casing was used, it indicates what could be a potentially dangerous problem.

Thank you,
GL

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:15 PM   #2
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The Garand gas system is for military ammo of lower pressure. Most civilian ammo is meant for bolt guns.
Under 180 gr and under 2700 fps.
Look for 30-06 Garand ammo. Try the CMP or go to ammoseek.com
Too much pressure will damage the op rod.
This may not be the problem, but it's a start. A pic of the case damage would help.
I'm sure some more Garand guys will be along with there take on this.

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:56 PM   #3
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What he said up there^^^. The Garand was intended to shoot M2 Ball ammo. The burn rate of the powder is specific to the Garand.

For a civilian version of M2, something like this (notice the Garand marking?)
30-06-garand-ammo.jpg

The "ring" around the brass could be a sign of excessive headspace- the cartridge is free to move within the chamber. When fired, the forward part of the case expands, grips the chamber walls- but the rear is free to move back- stretching the case, thinning the brass, producing a ring in the brass.

Step 1- take rifle to a gunsmith that knows Garands. Have him check headspace, check for bent operating rod.

Step 2- use the right ammo- OR switch to an adjustable gas plug like this:
garand-adjustable-gas-plug.jpg

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Old 06-11-2014, 02:29 PM   #4
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Schuster gas plug.

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Old 06-11-2014, 07:30 PM   #5
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And where ARE my manners???

That was your first post! Welcome! Glad you found your way to us. When you get a second, drop by the Intro thread and say hello. Good folks here- sometimes a bit goofy, but good folks.

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Old 06-11-2014, 08:09 PM   #6
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Can you post a picof the ring? May be excessive headspace

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Old 06-11-2014, 08:54 PM   #7
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There is a company called Garandgear that has a good web site with info on the gas control system. And they have a very good comparison of commercial ammo and mil spec ammo. They show the pressure traces for many popular types of ammo; from that you should be able to figure out what to buy at the local stores. And of course, they would enjoy it if you bought some of their stuff, I suppose.
Welcome to the site.

Just got this in my email from J&G. Pakistani M1 ammo in clips. It is not really cheap, but it is available. One drawback is that it is Berdan primed.

http://www.jgsales.com/-p-70058.html

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Old 06-11-2014, 09:48 PM   #8
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Civilian .30-06 hunting ammo can and generally does develop pressures at the gas port that exceed the pressure curve that the M1 was designed to operate with.

The result is that the excessive pressure developed by modern .30-06 loadings can damage the operating system (bend the op rod).

M2 ball ammo generally uses a powder called IMR4895 or something with an equivalent burn rate and pressure curve.

Federal and PRVI both make new manufacture M2 ball equivalent loadings. There are also surplus stocks of M2 ball available for sale that came from US military and foreign military cartridge manufacturing plants.

Check out http://www.ammogarand.com/.

My experience with surplus, mostly Lake City and Greek HXP, is that it shoots accurately and does not seem to cause any problems with the operating system. Once upon a time, the surplus M2 ball was a little less expensive than new manufacture, but now prices seem to run around $1 per cartridge with few exceptions. Do some hunting, but I think that that's the general case.

In any event, welcome to FTF. Enjoy your stay here.

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Old 06-11-2014, 09:54 PM   #9
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Surplus M2ball from CMP is .59 per rd. Using commercial ammo is not the cause of the ring on the brass in the OP's rifle
We need to see a close up pic of the ring if possible

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Old 06-12-2014, 02:25 PM   #10
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25-5, C3, Orlando, JWagner, KBD, Thank you ALL for your time And very informative and helpful advice!

Was going to put pics taken last night on this post, but lightning storm knocked out internet connection for the evening(THANKS Verizon!!!!)... Was editing them for better clarity and God and lightning willing, will post them this evening for everyone's review.

Thanks so much for all the info- Headspace issue seems to be the most common & prevalent based on what I've provided so far, but will keep eyes/ears open after pics are posted for future comments.

Thanks also for the ammo info- the ammo I used/have is 150 grain brass FMJ rounds from an Italian maker(Fijjioli, Fijjoli, or something like that- will verify when I get home this eve), and purchased from a vendor at a booth at the gun show. The Garand dealer mentioned them as rounds that should work well w/the weapon. Pics to come...

Thanks C3 & kbd for the warm welcome- C3, I'll put an intro post on the other board to say hi- thanks again!

One thing I was pleased with was the relative accuracy of the weapon being shoulder fired at 50 yds, the 1st time I had ever shot a Real rifle(BB/pellet guns not in the same Galaxy as this Beauty!). I will try & purchase some M2 ammo or rounds from CMP based on everyone's suggestions and ditch the current rounds- my son has a Chinese SK-6 (POS IMHO) that I fired after the Garand & could not get Close to the "red zone" after 10-12 shots, but am sure it's fine for him....

Will logon & post pics later and Thank You Very Much for Everyone's welcome & insightful & Helpful input!

As Ahhnold said about his favorite composer, "I'll be Bach"...

GL

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