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Old 01-16-2011, 03:18 PM   #51
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Default super duper long range

to all op's whats the ballistic coefficent of a 16 oz can of pinto beans,when thrown from a 3400 lb vehicle,traveling at 85 mph.on a level surface,with no deviation of direction (side to side swerve).no static wind ...just wind factor of vehicle at speed .target is a rectanglar sign approx 10 ft from edge of road .. whats the probability of one hit per throw , could i up the % if i peeled the label off? the best i can come up with is if i chunked can at 23 ft before the target,allowing for trajectory and vehicle. the ammo in question is ranch style ....have tried cheaper brands ,but everyone ive talk to said ranch style is the best.. just my 2 cents
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:38 PM   #52
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Regardless of all the asshattery in this thread (Me included)

I will still stand behind The Savage Target rifle for a beginner. It is around $1k for the rifle and that leaves you $1k for a scope. You can get some dam good glass for that much.

If you hunt you can get a savage for $700 to $800 that leaves $1200 that will get you one hell of a leupold scope to top it with.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=211662115

Savage Model 12 F/TR for sale, gun auctions and gun classifieds for Savage Model 12 F/TR at GunsAmerica. Refine your search for Savage Model 12 F/TR with the choices below.

savage model 12 benchrest for sale, gun auctions and gun classifieds for savage model 12 benchrest at GunsAmerica. Refine your search for savage model 12 benchrest with the choices below.

Sightron 8-32x56 SIII 30mm Riflescope

Leupold 8.5-25x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope

NightForce 8 - 32 x 56 Precision Benchrest Illuminated Reticle Riflescopes FREE S&H BR832-NP-1RR, BR832-NP-1, BR832-NP-R2, BR832-NP-2DD, BR832-CH-1, BR832-CH-2, BR832-CH-3, BR832-MIL-DOT. NightForce

Remington and a 308 will get you on the line at any F-Class match. You will be competitive as well because many are shooting 308's as well. It is a good started cartridge. there are plenty out there that are much better. the 6.5-284 is one of the top ones but as stated before it tends to burn out at about 800 to 1200 rounds. F-Class shooting doesn't give you a lot of time for cool down.

Been to a few F-Class matches and seen a guy win with a bone stock Remington 700p in 308 beat guys with $3k rifles and $1500 scopes. I also seen a girl that beat 30 guys with a remmy 700 wearing a Shilen 243 barrel with a Bushnell elite 4200 8-32x40mm scope.

Just expect to be spending money on ammo or reloading gear. I know guys who buy 5k rounds of BlackHills Redbox 175gr Match ammo then have the gun built around that ammo.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:39 PM   #53
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not to offend ... by the time yall get it all figured out ,ol taliban is out of range with your milk goat in tow . no cheese/milk for you .....the goat nazi
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:46 PM   #54
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Default tango ...

all b/s aside my next purchase will be a savage flcp-k .308 ....im a lefty.put me a good bi-pod on it .karstens cheekrest ...my choice of scope is still under evaluation...hope to take a nice whitetail at 300 +..my longest shot ..on game.1 shot kill 5x5 elk ..247 big steps .with a blr 30.06 168 grn ballistic silvertip ...not really a elk bullet ...was hunting mulies ,had a tag .
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:40 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by TCH2FLY View Post


Look at your first sentance then your last and consider the OP.

For a BEGINNER the .308 should not only be considered, but is actually a good choice. If this becomes a more serious endeavor he will likely move to a more suitable caliber (besides who owns one gun )

I am not saying it is the "magic bullet" but there is TON's of data out available, good quality factory match loads at reasonable prices, is easy on barrels and there are lots of great rifles that will work right off the shelf. There are certainly better choices but not many that are as practical for a beginner.
No, for a beginner a .308 is a great shooter for 200 or 300 yards, without adding a lot of frustration that can lead shooters to making mountainous changes in effort to overcome.

1,000 yard shooting is the hardest thing I have ever done. Hands down. To try and push a .308 to that distance adds so much to the equation that it makes a ton of extra work for a brand new shooter, it is HIGHLY counter productive.

As a beginner he should be looking at shooting 1 inch groups at 200yards and 2" groups at 300 yards to really get dialed in on a rig, in all weather conditions. That would be ideal. Especially in cross wind conditions which are practically a GUARANTEE when shooting 1,000.

If the whole goal of the money spent is to shoot 600-1000 yards, than you need to start with a cartridge that is designed, and been proven, to be a regular 1,000 yard competitor.

JD
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:56 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Longrange View Post
Wondering if anyone with long range shooting experience, 600-1000 yards will be able to answer a few questions for me. I am interested in buying a rifle, specifically for the bench that will reach out accurately to 600-1000 yards. I am looking first at what caliber should I be looking at? .223, .243, .308 will all of these be suitable or is 1 preferred over another?

Next I am looking at barrel legnth, should I stick with a 26" bull or will a 24" bull work as well?

I will preface this by stating that I have no bench experience for this type of shooting, so my theory is start at 100 yards and become proficient in that range, then move to 200 and so on.

What I am hoping to do is purchase a nice rifle from the start that I can grow into without having to spend big money at a smith to tweak my purchase. I have set my budget roughly in the $1500 range but will extend it to 2k if need be.

Thanks for your time
To the OP, come on over to kittyporn.com and get some solid advice. You can get set up with a professionally built base package rifle for under 1K, that you can upgrade as your skills ramp up. You can also check scheduled matches in your region that you can attend and just rub shoulders with folks that know the long range game and will be glad to help you with good solid information.

Last edited by user4; 01-17-2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason: No pimping third party sites
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:27 AM   #57
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No, for a beginner a .308 is a great shooter for 200 or 300 yards, without adding a lot of frustration that can lead shooters to making mountainous changes in effort to overcome.
I'm not sure what "mountainous changes" you are talking about. I bought a .308 as my "entry rifle" for sporting competitions to 1000 yds and if I do my part, the rifle does its part.

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1,000 yard shooting is the hardest thing I have ever done. Hands down. To try and push a .308 to that distance adds so much to the equation that it makes a ton of extra work for a brand new shooter, it is HIGHLY counter productive.
I don't disagree about the challenges and technical issues with 1000 yd shoots but they are not limited to .308s and flatter trajectories is only one part.


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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
As a beginner he should be looking at shooting 1 inch groups at 200yards and 2" groups at 300 yards to really get dialed in on a rig, in all weather conditions. That would be ideal. Especially in cross wind conditions which are practically a GUARANTEE when shooting 1,000.
I don't disagree and exactly why I think the .308 is a good choice. He will need plenty of practice and with reasonably priced match ammo he can get it and get it without the need to learn reloading(and taking the time to "find a load" ... he can do that later) or barrel replacement after 1200 rds in some screaming 6mm round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
If the whole goal of the money spent is to shoot 600-1000 yards, than you need to start with a cartridge that is designed, and been proven, to be a regular 1,000 yard competitor.

JD
While not "designed" for competition I would guess there are more than a few F-TR and Palma shooters that would say the .308 has MORE than proven itself.

I am not advocating buying a .308 and running out to the 1000 yd range but starting with a good factory action in .308 and learning all the fundamentals
of marksmanship at 100, 200, 300 yds, on out, with a rifle capable of reaching 1000 yds, is a practical and economical. As skills increase and limitations are reached, that rifle can then be kept, sold or rebarreled as the owner sees fit.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:42 AM   #58
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At this point it would appear that "Agree to Disagree" is the only choice left on this issue.

The .308 is not a 1,000 yard round. There is a reason it's not listed in anyone's gun that is shooting in 1,000 yard competitions.

The round can get there. But at 38 feet of hold over from a 100 yard zero, or a hell of a lot of cranking on your elevation knobs, I think there are easily better choices if the shooter is serious about shooting to 1,000.

The .308 is an EXCELLENT choice for shooting out to about 500-600 yards and really developing some great platform skills.

For the OP in question, if he walked into our shop and said he was a beginner and wanted to shoot for 1,000 with the same rig, the .308 would not be the caliber that would end up being discussed.

Your Mileage May Vary -

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Old 01-17-2011, 06:30 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
At this point it would appear that "Agree to Disagree" is the only choice left on this issue.

The .308 is not a 1,000 yard round. There is a reason it's not listed in anyone's gun that is shooting in 1,000 yard competitions.

The round can get there. But at 38 feet of hold over from a 100 yard zero, or a hell of a lot of cranking on your elevation knobs, I think there are easily better choices if the shooter is serious about shooting to 1,000.

The .308 is an EXCELLENT choice for shooting out to about 500-600 yards and really developing some great platform skills.

For the OP in question, if he walked into our shop and said he was a beginner and wanted to shoot for 1,000 with the same rig, the .308 would not be the caliber that would end up being discussed.

Your Mileage May Vary -

JD
I totally agree that the .308 is not generally intended to be a 1000yd round. That is probably why most of these folks are hand loaders. I guess that's where the challenge in it lies? I dunno... I thought most of these competitions required either .308, 30-06 or .223 unless they were F Class-Open. Paraphrasing you from earlier post, most people making claims they can shoot at this range are full of BS and talking out their ass. For the record, I cannot (yet) but I am working on it. Due to frusteration, I have went back to the drawing boards and am learning the science and art of reloading currently. I wish I had "bit the bullet" (another bad pun) and hit the reloading manuals earlier on.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:51 AM   #60
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OK, We are all right, Some more than other's. ( Practice) ( Ammo cost ) (Barrel's life) But i know for a fact if i let him use my rifle which is zeroed for 1000 yds all the time. He would be able to HIT my 22'' by 18'' steel 3 out of 5 times, maybe 4. Because i would take him on a good day. But are we talking about shooting that way or starting with a 100 yds zero. Again my scope is set at 1000 yds. OK, Smack gray splatter of copper & lead seen through scope then the Awesome SOUND RING!! Im not a bench rest shooter i lay on the ground. Yes just like Bobbie lee swagger. LOL. V-Pod cheap remington rear bag that i took all of the shredded car tires out of.,and filled with sand. Bubble level very important. medium hold , 1 1/2 lb trigger, glassed action and 1 1/2 inch of barrel, you know in front of the recoil lug. I never shoot when there is much wind. 10 mph or lower. Somone said it cant be done? that it's B.S. and talking out of are ass. That is B.S I've been doing this for 17 year's... Now if were talking about giving him my rifle, and start off with a 100 yard zero and tell him to shoot 1000 yds. NO WAY ! even in perfect condition's// He would be lost. How many click's) ( what do i do )(is the wind blowing) ? NO he wouldnt even ask. Probally say you shoot first ! Now when i started , We had a drout?? NO RAIN rifle zeroed at 200 yds. put target up. 4 foot by 4 foot plywood . Some 2 way radio's , Had my wife 500 yds out far to the right with 10 power binuculer's. Remember DROUT . Turned scope 2 revalution's and pulled the trigger. POOF light brown dust low and left. Real low! .....HOLD on a minute , Bare with me . My uncle year's ago had a 10/22 and was zeroing it in. He said come here, let me show you something. He put the 10/22 in a vise on his work bench and put a target 20 yards away. Then pulled the trigger. He didnt care where it hit on the paper. He looked at me and said WHAT NOW ? i said i dont know ! He looked through the scope and moved the cross hair's onto the bullet hole, All Done he said....Well that's what hit me when i seen the dust. I cranked the scope to where the dust was. what happed next dust about 4 feet low from target . That's an EZ ajustment. Next shot ( ring ). I was hooked, Marked scope with paint pen told wife to start walking to me and went home. Piece of cake ! Thank's to the dust. it was my spotter. SO if the newguy was there with me, we would be ringing steel............There is somthing hidden here to see if your paying attention.
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