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-   -   Long range with a .223, how possible? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/long-range-223-how-possible-34535/)

zhuk 11-19-2010 03:18 AM

Long range with a .223, how possible?
 
OK this is just a pre-emptive question...due to certain 'adjustments in range politics' my club may be able to gain access to the fullbore range sometime in the future. It goes out to 800m (only one other range in the State has this capability) and there have been suggestions about holding our regular Service Rifle comps at 600m>down to 100m or maybe even 800m down :eek: (rofl)


Would I be totally insane in thinking a .223 might be capable of stretching to these distances? (currently using the club's Tikkas) Our 'usual' comps are 300>100m, with the mythical 400m shoots scheduled but something has always come up with the "range template" to prevent these so I haven't had the opportunity to try that distance as yet...

Hopefully with the new political atmosphere, that won't be an issue now, just thought I'd ask about the practical possibility. Any opinions?

Highpower 11-19-2010 03:47 AM

A standard "across-the-course" match here is 200 - 600 yards, and the AR15/M16 doesn't have any problem with it so I would not shy away from 600 meters. A fast twist and heavy bullets help of course. :p

800 meters on the other hand..... :rolleyes:

Dgunsmith 11-20-2010 03:16 AM

With the correct ammo....like Black Hills Heavy Match OTM...you can do it.

spittinfire 11-20-2010 03:28 AM

600 is not a problem. I shot 500 in the USMC with the crappy issued stuff and could hit a man sized target 10 out of 10. I see no reason why you couldn't do this.

M14sRock 11-20-2010 03:33 AM

Get some heavy (75-77gr) and a 1/7 or 1/8 and you will be golden at 600 and should be fine to 800.

JTJ 11-20-2010 07:14 PM

I know shooters that regularly compete at 1000 yds with the AR in 5.56x45/223 and do quite well. You can shoot 223 in a gun chambered for 5.56x45 but military chamber pressures are higher so dont shoot mil spec 5.56x45 in guns chambered for 223.

Sniper03 11-20-2010 08:17 PM

600 yard
 
As stated you do not want to shoot 5.56 NATO Cal. in a Remington 223 Chamber. There are dimensional differences that increase the pressure as well as military ammunition has higher chamber pressures. In the bolt gun chambered for the true Remington 223 Cal. you will likely feel resistance in the final process of closing the bolt! "Don't use 5.56 in these chambers. By forcing the bolt closed in the last instance you have increased your chamber pressure by about 20,000 psi!!!! Most all of the modern production AR Rifles are truly chambered for 5.56 NATO as well as some of the newer bolt rifles. You can find out by using a Throat Erosion gauge!
Reference the question about 600 yard for the 5.56 the competitive shooters at Camp Perry at the Nationals shoot the 5.56 at 600 yards in their competition. So not at all out of the question. The biggest factor of the 223/5.56 at longer distances is the wind effect upon bullet flight.

jpattersonnh 11-20-2010 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper03 (Post 389430)
As stated you do not want to shoot 5.56 NATO Cal. in a Remington 223 Chamber. There are dimensional differences that increase the pressure as well as military ammunition has higher chamber pressures. In the bolt gun chambered for the true Remington 223 Cal. you will likely feel resistance in the final process of closing the bolt! "Don't use 5.56 in these chambers. By forcing the bolt closed in the last instance you have increased your chamber pressure by about 20,000 psi!!!! Most all of the modern production AR Rifles are truly chambered for 5.56 NATO as well as some of the newer bolt rifles. You can find out by using a Throat Erosion gauge!
Reference the question about 600 yard for the 5.56 the competitive shooters at Camp Perry at the Nationals shoot the 5.56 at 600 yards in their competition. So not at all out of the question. The biggest factor of the 223/5.56 at longer distances is the wind effect upon bullet flight.

Not true at all. You can chamber a 5.56 in a .223 bolt gun w/ no resistance, but it does run a higher pressure. 20,000psi is BS! BTW, a CIP .223 chamber is similar to a Wylde chamber and will have no issue w/ 5.56x45 nato spec ammo. .223 rifles have a shorter throat and therefor limit bullet jump. The longer throat and shoulder angle of a 5.56 chamber allows for the extra pressure. Are you an armorer? My buddy Phil is at Ft Drum. He retired from the military, but still works as an armorer there as his full time job. I call you forevermore, Sniper wanna be!

Sniper03 11-20-2010 11:39 PM

You are correct in general but we have experienced the situation previously mentioned. Possibly due to ammunition that may have not been to spec. But regardless the problem can exist. Along as you stated the pressures are higher due to the case wall variations and loads.
In past years with a real tight Remington 223 Chamber we have experienced a problem particularly with the AR Rifles. And one Sako Bolt Rifle. I did take some offense to your mannerism regarding the sniper comment. Several years as a true sniper and instructor. I generally do not attempt to make unnecessary comments about my fellow shooters and sportsmen.
I hope it made you feel better!

jpattersonnh 11-21-2010 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper03 (Post 389513)
You are correct in general but we have experienced the situation previously mentioned. Possibly due to ammunition that may have not been to spec. But regardless the problem can exist. Along as you stated the pressures are higher due to the case wall variations and loads.
In past years with a real tight Remington 223 Chamber we have experienced a problem particularly with the AR Rifles. And one Sako Bolt Rifle. I did take some offense to your mannerism regarding the sniper comment. Several years as a true sniper and instructor. I generally do not attempt to make unnecessary comments about my fellow shooters and sportsmen.
I hope it made you feel better!

You made a blanket statement which I don't agree with. Not all "new" .223 AR's are 5.56 spec. A U.S. .223 chamber is a .223 chamber. You may get a few rounds (1...1000) down range before an "oh Sh!t" happens. It may be a seizure, it may be a failure. Bad Ju Ju in my book. But than again, I'm an old anal Fart. I also come from the school that I own rifles, not weapons. W/ my open sight AR I can hit a 18" plate at 600 yards. I also have a nice collection of vintage "snipers" that will hit 12" at 800 yards.
You are new here, and show no info to back up your statement. If I were a former sniper, I sure would not advertize it . Check out Lightfighter.com, lots of wanna be's. Humility is a great way to start. You use a "handle", I use my name.

If you want to have a real discussion, PM me.


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