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Old 10-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #11
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Good choice on the rifle, our military has been using the M700 for decades. I just bought a left hand Rem 700 in .308 ( heavy barrel varmint). While the 30/06 has the advantage for hunting especially with the heavier ( 180 grains and up) bullets, I tend to think of the .308 as more the target/sniping caliber. Not that the 30/06 wouldn't do well in that respect, but the .308 has filled those roles since Vietnam. I agree with others, stay away from Barska, BSA. etc. If you want an inexpensive scope to get started and maybe upgrade later as finances allow, check out the Vortex Crossfire 6-18x AO. It comes with the Deadhold BDC reticle and a screw-on sunshade, and is pretty decent for it's cost of around $225.
up to about 160-170 gr bullets, the 308 and the 30-06 are pretty close in ballistics as far as energy and velocity, with the 30-06 having a slight edge, but not much. now getting into the heavier bullets from about 180 grs. and up the 30-06 has an advantage due to a larger case with more pwder capacity and being able to propel a heavier bullet.

one of the first bolt actions pressed into sniper duty for the Marine Corps were heavy barreled Winchester M70 target rifles in 30-06. they later switched to Remington M700's in 308 with heavy barrels. they used Redfield and Unertl scopes. many of the Redfields were 3-9 powered and the Unertl scopes were 10 powered.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:07 PM   #12
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To Doc3402 is 3-9 enough power to get to 1000 yards? Every where I read says 20 to 30 power. That is why I was wondering if 6-24x44 was the right power?

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Old 10-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #13
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To axxe55 to my knowledge the longest shot was qualifying in the guards where I got 2 out of 3 300 yard pop up targets with open sites on an m16. But that was years ago. Did a lot of shooting as a kid growing up on the farm woodchucks coyotes etc. Some at pretty good distances just never measured unfortunately. So I have not shot in probably 15 years so this is more for fun and prove a bunch of buddies wrong that tell me 800 yards is unattainable and laugh at me.
get a good quality rifle with a heavy barrel in say 308 and a quality scope and start practicing at 300 yards. get the 308 as they have probably the best selection of match grade factory loads available and will be a little gentler on your shoulder in regards to recoil, if you don't reload your own ammo.

i would alos suggest looking into getting into reloading. a few good reasons why. one reason, cost. you can shoot much better premium loads you make for less than he costof the cheaper factory loads. two, you can match the ammo to your rifle and fine tune it for the best possble accuracy. three, it will enable you to shoot more because of the costs saved vs. using premium factory ammo, and the more time spent shooting will enable you to become a better shooter. four, it's fun! it adds enjoyment to your shooting.

not having shot rifles in over 15 years, you might also think about getting a 22 rimfire in a bolt action and relearning your rifle shooting skills. much cheaper to shoot and lots of fun as well. plus it gives you a reason to own another gun! i like rimfires and still shoot them myself quite a bit.
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:40 PM   #14
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Yes I really liked my dad's 22 growing up but not sure that would reach 1000 yards. Like I said I would like a one time purchase to start out at 100 yards and work up to 1000 yards if I can get there. Definitely would not get into loading ny own ammo no patience. But thanks for the tips. Really like the Remington 700 SPS SS 30-06. Some guys shooting competition say they are reaching 1400 plus. One guy said 1700. That's insane. So I am trying to figure out the scope to match. I saw the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 for $429 or if I saved a little more the Vortex Viper PST for $750. So I am wondering what the difference is and is it worth the money.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:30 PM   #15
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Axx, Reading your notes on the Vietnam era sniper rifles was interesting. As noted Mdl. 70 .30 Govt. Target rifles were issued early on. The sniper training programs was disbanded after WWII.
It was throw it on the wall and see if it would stick. The Redfield 3X9 Varmint scope of the day with an internal Range Finder was issued. The internal Range Finders were plastic strips inside the tube marked with range increments. The tropical heat warped and destroyed the Redfield scopes. Just a memory.

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Old 10-20-2013, 08:23 PM   #16
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Axx, Reading your notes on the Vietnam era sniper rifles was interesting. As noted Mdl. 70 .30 Govt. Target rifles were issued early on. The sniper training programs was disbanded after WWII.
It was throw it on the wall and see if it would stick. The Redfield 3X9 Varmint scope of the day with an internal Range Finder was issued. The internal Range Finders were plastic strips inside the tube marked with range increments. The tropical heat warped and destroyed the Redfield scopes. Just a memory.
that was the same thing i had read years ago that the military had disbanded most sniper units not too long after the end of WWII and in Vietnam they had to start all over from scratch because it was different environment than those they used snipers in WWII. in many of the jungle environments in WWII, they didn't deploy very many snipers as they didin the European theaters.

read up on the story of Carlos Hathcock and his commander Jim Land of who they started new scout/sniper units in the early part of the Veitnam war. very interesting reading. and a bit of trivia, Jim Land is also on the Board of Directors for the NRA!

they also sources some of those Winchester M70's from civilian sources as well. some of the Government Target Model M70's dated back to around WWII if i remember correctly.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:34 AM   #17
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I read that book awhile back - "White Feather" - NVA had a bounty on him.

A local was talking up his Shepard scope years ago, said they were even used in Vietnam. Never bothered to look it up. Figured he may be contributing to a time honored New England Tradition, "Never let the Truth get in the way of a good story."

Yet, Always wanted to try their 22 or 22 Mag scopes.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:50 AM   #18
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I read that book awhile back - "White Feather" - NVA had a bounty on him.

A local was talking up his Shepard scope years ago, said they were even used in Vietnam. Never bothered to look it up. Figured he may be contributing to a time honored New England Tradition, "Never let the Truth get in the way of a good story."

Yet, Always wanted to try their 22 or 22 Mag scopes.
the Army may have used them. but from what i have read the Marine Corps used Unertl and Redfield scopes and started using the Schmidt and Benders a few years ago. it's possible they may have tried others as well. and quite possible they have used many other brands in different units and such.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:30 AM   #19
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The Vietnam war was over before Shepherd offered their scopes to the American market. The war ended Feb. 3, 1973. Shepherd scopes were first offered 10 years later in 1983.
Leatherwood optics and Weaver also provided scopes during WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

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Old 10-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #20
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I think whatever works for you is fine. It is your money and your rifle. Simply spending a lot of money doesn't insure accuracy. I have seen time and time again where long-range accuracy can be achieved with inexpensive rifles and optics. I have also seen people with very expensive rifles and optics who couldn't shoot very well. Practice and familiarity with the rifle is key no matter what you are shooting. Personally I think your choice is just fine if you are comfortable with it. Of course the best shooters with the best equipment will always be the best combination but I think what you have in mind should work fine if you are shooting for personal enjoyment and not competition.

This inexpensive setup has worked well for me. I haven't tried any 1000-yard shots with it yet but so far so good. I have about $500 invested in this rifle.

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