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-   -   a little dissapointed... (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/little-dissapointed-84136/)

70cuda383 02-13-2013 09:51 PM

a little dissapointed...
 
I recently acquired a used Savage model 11 .308 with a fairly new (he said brand new?) Vortex 3-9x40 Diamondback with the BDC recticle.

I went to do some zeroing shots today. at first, I had to bring the paper in to 50 yards just to get on the paper, and even then, I had one of 4 shots graze the edge of the plate.

made about 30 clicks on the scope to center it up some.

tried again, then went back to 100 yards.


I was really hoping for a tighter group at just 100 yards. I ended up with an almost 5" group on the plate,

I wanted to get a nice bolt action so I can do some long range shooting. during competition, I've done some 400 yard work with a 20" AR and iron sights and did pretty good...I was at least hitting the flash target with the strobe light that would signal a hit.

but as I look at this grouping, I'm feeling like an amateur. I think I've done better with my non-magnified 16" M4gery and a red-dot!

I don't feel like I could even begin to try to get a 200 yard zero with a grouping like this, it'd be such a wide grouping that I'd never be able to tell what the grouping actually is!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6...ps2866690e.jpg


this is my first scoped bolt action rifle, looks like I've got a LOT of work ahead of me to get as good with it as I am with the rapid fire semi-autos and pistols! haha.

First up, I want a better trigger this one feels quite stiff. after that...not sure what I'll need. I was practicing dry fire and felt like I was holding the target ok while squeezing the trigger. is it really that hard to shoot MOA without using sandbags and bench rests? (I was just laying prone in the yard, using my off-hand/fist as a rest to hold the rifle up)

hardluk1 02-13-2013 10:13 PM

Its easier to zero a scope at 25 yards. If spot on at 25 yards, hard to miss there. Bolt rifles also can bore sighted easily at 25 yards but you need a rest. Then you should be close at 200 yards.

Take the scope off and see if the base is tight and loc-tite in place. Then put the scope back on. Check the rings too. Maybe take a buddy with you to shot it too. Could end up being a junk scope. could end up the way your try'n to rest and shot the rifle . With out some kind of solid rest to shot from getting a got group and all about your skill sets. For me I will ot shoot for group with out rifle rest front and rear. Atleast use a back pac or bag of ptting soi and a jacket. something solid.

If the trigger is a old non adjustable trigger and you got to have a better trigger , Rifle Basix sav-1 trigger is 85 bucks. easy to install and adjust down to 1lb. But it should be good enought with out a better trigger .

How well did you clean the bore?? Soak with a good copper cleaner brush and map dry. It could be copper up being a older used rifle and that alone will kill accuracy. Have a seasoned shooter or hunter give you a hand with checking it out and shooting. Use a 150 or 165gr bullet too. No 180gr needed and no junk odd ball old nato ammo. Last, it could be a junk scope.

orangello 02-13-2013 10:41 PM

Maybe you just need larger targets?

jpattersonnh 02-13-2013 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 1136234)
Maybe you just need larger targets?

What ammo were you using?? Try different ammo.

70cuda383 02-13-2013 11:27 PM

ammo was Federal match, I dont remember the grain count off the top of my head, I'd have to go check it again, but it's just a plain white box that says "federal" and I think on one end it said "Match"

didn't think about cleaning the bore. I don't even have .30 caliber brushes yet:eek: I forgot that I read how a dirty bore can mess up groupings.

I've heard good things about the vortex scopes, this one seems to retail for about $200 at various online shops, and vortex seems to have a great warranty if needed.

larger targets? haha. that's not going to help me get a tighter group! how big is a paper plate anyway? 10" diameter?

Axxe55 02-13-2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70cuda383 (Post 1136304)
ammo was Federal match, I dont remember the grain count off the top of my head, I'd have to go check it again, but it's just a plain white box that says "federal" and I think on one end it said "Match"

didn't think about cleaning the bore. I don't even have .30 caliber brushes yet:eek: I forgot that I read how a dirty bore can mess up groupings.

I've heard good things about the vortex scopes, this one seems to retail for about $200 at various online shops, and vortex seems to have a great warranty if needed.

larger targets? haha. that's not going to help me get a tighter group! how big is a paper plate anyway? 10" diameter?

Cuda, those Savage rifles are usually pretty accurate. it being a used rifle, i would see about doing a very thorough bore cleaning to start off with, then buy some various different ammos to try out. there is the possibility the scope is the culprit, but also as suggested, check the bases and scope rings for tightness first. also do a thorough cleaning and then a light oiling of the trigger group as well and it might help the feel of the trigger. i have bought several used rifles that had a heavy gunk build-up in the trigger assemblies and a good cleaning made a world of difference.

mrm14 02-13-2013 11:53 PM

I have a 300 WM bolt gun for long range target and when it was fairly new, about 500 rounds down the pipe, it's accuracy went to sh!T. One of the 1000 yard target shooters in the club said to try Wipe-Out by Sharp Shoot R Precision Products.

Now, I had been lightly cleaning the barrel after every 60 or so rounds with Hopps #9 and thought it was clean, and that was after a break in which I saw little to no copper indications. But after using the Wipe-Out foam bore cleaner I saw from the patches the barrel was fouled with copper. After I used this stuff to clean the barrel, it shot, once again, less then 1/4" groups @ 100 yards. I was more than pleased with the results, the barrel never built up that much copper again, and it kept shooting extremely tight groups until the barrel was "shot out".

I don't clean the barrel that much on my precision bolt guns as it does take life out of the barrel, but I do clean and use Wipe-Out now about every 400 to 500 rounds.

Also, I run a timed brake on this rifle and found carbon build up on the crown. Carbon build up on the crown, I found out is, natural with a brake or supressor if you have a brake on your rifle check the crown for carbon build up. If you don't have a brake check the crown to see if it is damaged as well.

John_Deer 02-14-2013 12:22 AM

It was your first time to shoot the rifle. Did you have instant skills with your pistol? After firing a number of centerfire rifle rounds many people start flinching. Were you shooting with your eyes open? You mentioned all your experience is with a 5.56 which has virtually no recoil. Most rifle competitions don't allow the use of a scope or a red dot. They are a pure iron sight affair. Hunters use scopes for their shooting, not target shooters. You have a hunting rifle and hope to win shooting competitions?

JonM 02-14-2013 12:23 AM

the type of rifle you have is a hunting rifle. the barrels are very thin and lightweight. this means its terrible for doing shot after shot. the more you heat the barrel up the bigger the groups get.

the purpose of these guns are to take one shot on a deer collect deer gut and dress out the deer go out the next day take a shot collect deer etc.

after taking a shot wait until you feel zero warmth anywhere on the barrel then take another shot wait etc.

if you wait for a totally cool barrel i think your groups will shrink considerably

TLuker 02-14-2013 01:05 AM

Lots of good advice. My .02 which is basically what everyone said:

1. Take the scope off and check the base and rings
2. Clean the barrel
3. Shoot from a solid rest and see what the gun can really do (I like a bipod in the front and a small sand bag on the rear).
4. Take several boxes with you and see which the gun likes best
5. Let the barrel cool after 3 shots or so. Warm is ok but don't let it get hot.
6. Then work on building good shooting positions (Google prone, sitting, standing, and kneeling).

Good luck.

And you might want to just try the gun as is from a sold rest without doing anything just see how much of that was you?:)


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