LE "Jungle Carbines", or imitations: your views.
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > LE "Jungle Carbines", or imitations: your views.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2009, 10:01 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Memphis.,TN
Posts: 240
Default LE "Jungle Carbines", or imitations: your views.

My interest is owning and shooting military-style rifles, and have two Minis, an SKS and two MN 44s.
Authenticity is not important, neither is accuracy (seldom shoot at paper).

Do people often own a "J.C." for a while and sell it, or mostly sell only imitations of the originals?

__________________
Laufer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 03-27-2009, 11:02 PM   #2
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,006
Liked 2692 Times on 1406 Posts
Likes Given: 216

Default

The original Jungle Carbine was a .303 Lee Enfield (#5 I think). Some were converted to .308 (India, Ishapore arsenal). Ishapore made a number of them as purpose built .308 jungle carbines.

There are many "forgeries" out there as the original military variants are collectable. The "forgeries" may still be perfectly fieldable rifles they just are not as collectable.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:47 PM   #3
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,555
Liked 8703 Times on 3766 Posts
Likes Given: 1338

Default

From my admitedly LIMITED expertise on this weapon, there are MANY more "Jungle Carbines" out there than were ever made for the military. Sort of like the "Tanker" Garands.

The true carbine was found to have a "wandering zero" problem- like lightning, did not strike twice in same place- problem was traced to the lightening cuts made in sides of receiver. Most of the repros don't have those cuts.

Real thing had significant recoil, and muzzle flash.

IIRC, the Ishapores were not conversions of .303s- the Indians used better steel, slightly different action, and theirs were made from the ground up for 7.62 NATO- which is NOT .308 Winchester (close, no cigar)

__________________
c3shooter is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 12:19 AM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 27
Default

The "real" jungle carbine was the No 5, which is inscribed with an electric pencil on the left side of the action. They're ferocious muzzle-blast wise and recoil-wise if you use ball ammo. Also they're not especially accurate.

You can find them occasionally, and lots of recently manufactured ones made form No 4s or even No 1s.

Problem with Enfields now is getting replacement parts. The action stretches pretty much on schedule, and you used to be able to find extended bolt heads (Numbers 1, 2, 3) that you could put on yourself and account for case stretching. I've seen more than one No 4 stretch a case to the point of ringing just above the head, one step down from case separation. Now, the No 3 bolt heads are pretty hard to find.

I got rid of mine several years ago, never looked back with regret. It was real, and I was really serious about shooting one, I'd reload down for it. I don't know if the headspace was excessive, or what bolt face it had on it...I didn't shoot it enough to really find out.

__________________
Gene Langston is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 04:44 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Memphis.,TN
Posts: 240
Default

Thanks for your info. and experiences. I enjoy rugged, military-styled carbines so much more than anything else, and don't want anything else.
I only bought my rifles because some of the guns, and all the required ammo were pretty cheap, from Dec. '07 until Aug. '08.

If a case splits, are LE JCs' chambers as rugged as with my MN 44s?
Will old, cheap Pakistani ammo almost always fire, and safely after a gunsmith checks the headspace?
Being still a bit of a (middle-aged) gun novice, am curious why Paki ammo is so cheap, except for a possible corrosive factor, as with my Bulgarian 7.62x54R ammo.

Very old .22 Savage, Mini 14, 30, N. SKS and two MN 44s.

__________________

Last edited by Laufer; 03-28-2009 at 04:49 AM.
Laufer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 06:19 AM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 220
Default

LE Jungle Carbine . . . Jeez!

I thought you were talking "Law Enforcement" and something like an H&K MP 5.

__________________
SlamFire is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 07:42 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Memphis.,TN
Posts: 240
Default

Slamfire: Generic LEs Are used by some Indian police or army troops. We saw photos of them being handled during the terrorist raid in Mumbai.

Gene L.:
I've not had any of my rifles long enough to need a replacement part, but could a Jungle C. use most spare metal parts from any regular LE?

As for ammo, is cheap 'British ball' from Samco supposed to be much better than Pakistani, which reportedly produces a click, pause, boom?
If old British is better, then for those prices, do they have lots of it, or is something wrong with it, from storage somewhere humid or hot etc?

__________________

Last edited by Laufer; 03-29-2009 at 05:10 AM.
Laufer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:42 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 27
Default

I never replaced any parts, but I think most parts in the action would work. From a No 4, that is.

CAse separation is a real possibility with those heavily used rifles. I don't think many jungle carbines were heavily used, however. I've seen a few and the wood on all of them was excellent, not like the beat-up 4s.

They weren't in issue for that long....HOWEVER, I'd definitely test the thing by firing a round and then first seeing how much it stretched, and second, see if it's ringed on the inside just above the head. You can take a paper clip and bend the end into an "L" shape, feel inside the case with that. If it's ringed, you'll feel it.

__________________
Gene Langston is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 10:56 PM   #9
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,555
Liked 8703 Times on 3766 Posts
Likes Given: 1338

Default

Headspacing can eventually be a problem with any of the Lee-Enfield family. A fix when you run out of bigger bolt heads is to see your smith, and have the barrel set back one thread. Will work until you have to start playing musical chairs with bolt heads again.

The key to reliability of ammo is how it has been stored- cool, dry, without major temperatures up/down/up/down. The paki stuff has been stored.... well, it has been stored, and we'll leave it at that. Last box of 32 I tried had 12 no fires, and about 12 with a DECIDED time interval between firing pin striking, and rifle making loud noise. OK- that was enough of that!

I did score about a 1000 rds of Greek milsurp on strippers- it has been the best I have tried. When that is gone, my #1 and #4 may become 45-70s.

And yes, the SMLE chambers DO have gas relief ports. Be sure you have the cosmoline cleaned out of them. Pipecleaners can be a big help.

__________________
c3shooter is online now  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 05:25 AM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Memphis.,TN
Posts: 240
Default

Thanks a bunch.
Being sort of new with guns, will take all of your advice into account, but never see these, except for sort of a brand-new imitation, up in Gander Mt. in Saginaw, MI three days ago, listed at $600. Built by Australian Arms, it's almost identical, and it uses 7.62x39 ammo. The flash-hider is not cone shaped.

Gene L: with a plastic pad (now used only to lengthen the short SKS stock), would a .303 JC's recoil be similar to that of my MN 44?
No longer need a pad etc on my 44s.

__________________

Last edited by Laufer; 03-31-2009 at 05:02 AM.
Laufer is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
"Do "Gun-Free" Zones Encourage School Shootings?" cnorman18 The Club House 26 04-17-2012 09:57 PM
What would you pay for a LE "Jungle Carbine"? Laufer Curio & Relic Discussion 15 12-30-2010 02:22 PM
New youtube video I posted of "slow cycle" test of my Hi-Point SGT-MILLER General Handgun Discussion 7 05-19-2009 03:51 PM
No to HR 1022, "Assault Weapons Ban"" right winger Politics, Religion and Controversy 0 10-27-2008 01:54 AM
Witloe Remington 1858 New Model Army "Lee" & "Grant" bprevolver Blackpowder & Musket 0 09-25-2008 11:11 PM



Newest Threads