Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > Kalashnikov Platform Review:The truth about AK47 and it's derivatives

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by primer1 View Post
I don't know about more effective than 7.62, but 5.45 is more effective than 5.56 because it is a longer bullet, which causes a lot more damage because of when the bullet tumbles in the target.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey700PB View Post
5.56 in no way shape or form has more stopping power than a 7.62x39. While the 5.56 does out perform in accuracy at most ranges the 5.56 is extremely lacking in the stopping power department which is why most are screaming to get away from the 5.56. Research some of the reports from the military in the Middle East. The 5.56 simply does not "drop" a target.

Military contracted many firearms companies to create an AR that could fire a 30 cal projectile. In all honesty if the 7.62x39 operated properly in an AR there's a good change the 5.56 would have been replaced. The 7.62x39 doesn't operate well in the AR platform do to the slanted side on the casing. Check out the 300 black out.. Which is similarly to the 7.62x39 which is regarded as superior to 5.56 and will ultimately replace it.
Maybe I didn't explained well, let me try again:
1)As you said, the 7,62 will drop the targer-TRUE
2)The 5,56 is not only more accure-till 135 m it causes a severe damage to the tissues(Once it hit the targets, it usually tumbles)-The 7,62 has a greater penetration force, but it causes a relatively "clean" wound
3)The 7,62x39 is not that inaccurate-It just need much more training to compesate the bullet fall and to control the power of the cartridge(recoil-especially in full auto)
4)The 7,62x39 is in my opinion a great caliber:It let's you get the job done in almost all the situations.

P.S.:Would you like to know something funny?I still remember something that our corporal told me while we were training at the range(in the JNA)...He told me "You don't necessarly need to aim directly at the target and wait for it...if the son of a bitch hides behind a wall, then shoot directly the wall-In most cases, the bullet will pass through the wall and neutralize the threat-That's what the 7,62 is good for."


__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:46 PM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Van_Goth

Maybe I didn't explained well, let me try again:
1)As you said, the 7,62 will drop the targer-TRUE
2)The 5,56 is not only more accure-till 135 m it causes a severe damage to the tissues(Once it hit the targets, it usually tumbles)-The 7,62 has a greater penetration force, but it causes a relatively "clean" wound
3)The 7,62x39 is not that inaccurate-It just need much more training to compesate the bullet fall and to control the power of the cartridge(recoil-especially in full auto)
4)The 7,62x39 is in my opinion a great caliber:It let's you get the job done in almost all the situations.

P.S.:Would you like to know something funny?I still remember something that our corporal told me while we were training at the range(in the JNA)...He told me "You don't necessarly need to aim directly at the target and wait for it...if the son of a bitch hides behind a wall, then shoot directly the wall-In most cases, the bullet will pass through the wall and neutralize the threat-That's what the 7,62 is good for."
Well if you want to get into tumble and tissue damage the debate gets a ton deeper. Most people will compare a hollow point 223 to a fml 7.62x39. That is a completely weighted comparison.

The 7.62 will not pass through clean I can promise that. It will go through but the exit wound will be much larger than the entrance and it will be anything but clean.

As far as the accuracy is concerned I believe this is far over blown. It depends what application we are talking about. Are we talking urban style combat or somewhat close quarters out to 100-150 yards? Because I can guarantee my 108 lb girlfriend can shoot my ak as good as my m4 in those ranges. Are you ranging your ar to 500-600 yards off hand in a serious military situation? Well I hope you have a right twist and some heavy bullets.

Just not very practical..


__________________
Jersey700PB is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:54 PM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey700PB

Well if you want to get into tumble and tissue damage the debate gets a ton deeper. Most people will compare a hollow point 223 to a fml 7.62x39. That is a completely weighted comparison.

The 7.62 will not pass through clean I can promise that. It will go through but the exit wound will be much larger than the entrance and it will be anything but clean.

As far as the accuracy is concerned I believe this is far over blown. It depends what application we are talking about. Are we talking urban style combat or somewhat close quarters out to 100-150 yards? Because I can guarantee my 108 lb girlfriend can shoot my ak as good as my m4 in those ranges. Are you ranging your ar to 500-600 yards off hand in a serious military situation? Well I hope you have a right twist and some heavy bullets.

Just not very practical..
It's also worth noting that several military studies show that in most instances the 556 doesn't create the yaw effect that you referred to. I read a study once by a military doctor that claimed that in most cases the 556 passed through clean without any yaw or significant damage especially at close ranges.. It has been opined that the bullet would need to pass through at least 5 inches of tissue before any defragmentation even started.
__________________
Jersey700PB is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:54 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
primer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,338
Liked 2354 Times on 1531 Posts

Default

If you can guarantee that your girlfriend can shoot like that we will need pics to prove it. Do us a favor and wait until it is real hot outside.

__________________

Feral cat waterboarder

primer1 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by primer1
If you can guarantee that your girlfriend can shoot like that we will need pics to prove it. Do us a favor and wait until it is real hot outside.
Haha will do.
__________________
Jersey700PB is offline  
orangello Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 07:14 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default Here we go someone it is worth to talk to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey700PB View Post
Well if you want to get into tumble and tissue damage the debate gets a ton deeper. Most people will compare a hollow point 223 to a fml 7.62x39. That is a completely weighted comparison.

The 7.62 will not pass through clean I can promise that. It will go through but the exit wound will be much larger than the entrance and it will be anything but clean.

As far as the accuracy is concerned I believe this is far over blown. It depends what application we are talking about. Are we talking urban style combat or somewhat close quarters out to 100-150 yards? Because I can guarantee my 108 lb girlfriend can shoot my ak as good as my m4 in those ranges. Are you ranging your ar to 500-600 yards off hand in a serious military situation? Well I hope you have a right twist and some heavy bullets.

Just not very practical..
Pretty simple:We are talking about 100-150m(110-160 yds).This is the range were an AK will offer the best performance.In any case:Shooting a rifle at a range greater than 200m(220 yards) with any rifle that has iron sights ONLY, is simply stupid.If you want to deliver accurate and effective fire, the only way to go is the use of optics at that distance.

Regarding the caliber:The "standard" m43 ammo will pass through in a relatively "clean" way.If we are talking about the the m67 ammo(which is still 7,62x39) developed by Serbians, then you're right.It will cause much more damage by maintaining the same stopping power(the capability of dropping down a target).The M67 was designed in an attempt to match the the capability of tumbling of the 5,56 or, at least, to cause the same or similar damage to the tissues(frankly speaking:It doesn't cause nothing like that...even if, actually,it causes much more damage than the "standard" M43 ammo).
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pasco Cty.FL
Posts: 6,510
Liked 2442 Times on 1391 Posts
Likes Given: 1910

Default

As a range shooter, I find my AKM to be

a safe queen. I collect milsurp, and so

as such will never get rid of it, but it

wants in accuracy, where other rifles shine.

A lot of folks like to take them to the range

anyway. Hey, it's a free country, and their

expenditure on ammo is helping

the economy, right?

__________________
therewolf is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:37 PM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts

Default

They are both great rounds but I prefer the knockdown power of the 7.62x39 if my life depended on it.

I'm a bolt gun shooter at heart so anything beyond 100 yards, maybe 150, I don't feel the need of a "battle rifle". What I expect out of one is inside those distances I should be able to put a full magazine on center mass without difficult and with relative speed. My AK can meet those desires easily. While bench shooting it most likely would not meet an AR as far as group size, but that isn't the purpose of the rifle for me. If we are comparing precision AR's with high power optics, were comparing apples and oranges.

I don't claim to be the greatest shooter in the world, and I can shoot a 10 shot group about the size of an apple off hand with relative speed at about 50-60 yards with my WASR-10. That is more than sufficient so ill take the knockdown power over sub moa.

There is no doubt the 556 tumbles and causes severe damage. A 556 is plenty capable of delivering fatal shots. But a guy that bleeds to death can let more rounds go. That's been the biggest gripe overseas.

__________________
Jersey700PB is offline  
therewolf Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 26
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts

Default

One curiosity I always had about the 7.62x39 is that many believe it to be hard to control. There seems to be a drastic difference in opinions of the recoil aspect of shooting an AK or an SKS, etc vs an AR.

I find the recoil to be extremely mild and very manageable but most of my experience is in shooting .308, 30-06, .270, etc. I'm curious to know if the perception of the recoil is based on the shooters experience with different calibers. To me the 7.62x39 is nothing in the recoil department, but a heavy .223 shooter may disagree. Curious to hear from those more used to shooting lighter caliber options.

__________________
Jersey700PB is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #20
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,170
Liked 5731 Times on 3358 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

At the end of the day, that 7.62x39 is just gonna tear up too much of the squirrel's meat to be as good of a squirrel gun as a .223.



__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Glock or Kalashnikov Ruger_Nut General Handgun Discussion 6 02-09-2013 01:41 AM
New to ar platform tarsteeler AR-15 Discussion 11 11-06-2012 03:02 AM
New polish kalashnikov fivefourfiveX39 AK & SKS Discussion 10 09-13-2012 10:10 PM
Got to visit the kalashnikov Museum in (Izhevsk) Russia.... rifleshooter474 AK & SKS Discussion 3 07-13-2011 02:32 AM
Getting Into The Kalashnikov Game - 2010 by Gabe Suarez canebrake AK & SKS Discussion 2 10-04-2010 10:34 PM



Newest Threads