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Old 10-09-2013, 10:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm14
"If you had $500 for a 1000+ yard setup..." I'd put it in a savings account and save for another year or so then get a good one built. Also, I would pay for a couple or so long range shooting clinics so as I wouldn't waste my barrels while in the learning phase of this endeavor.
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone posted the exact opposite of the information I was looking for.

In addition to the above useless post, I have received several useless messages. So at the risk of sounding cocky and being accused of exaggerating I will explain a few things about my situation which I think are irrelevant to this thread, but that these people seem to be very concerned about anyway.

I don't need to buy a nice spotting scope or bench rest equipment. I work for a law enforcement agency. We have out own ranges, our own equipment, our own everything. I can check almost any of it out whenever I want providing it's not being used by the range staff at the time.

I don't need to pay for shooting clinics. I have several friends who are instructors for our regional SWAT school. One of them is a POST certified long range sniper. We shoot together all the time. It's usually handguns or THEIR rifles. But they'll help me with any setup I get. Whether its $500 or $17000. They don't care what I bring. They are full time range staff and when there isn't an academy or in service going on are willing to give me as much attention and training as I am willing to absorb.

I am not a first time shooter. I have been shooting since before I had the training wheels taken off my bike. I am proficient with my iron sights out to 500 meters on my rifles. I am proficient with my reflex sights. I am proficient with my handguns. I am not a match shooter, but I did win several law enforcement competitions back in the 90s and I am always among the top shooters in our agencies informal shooting competitions that we conduct during range In-Service every year.

I know I have a lot to learn. But I am not trying to learn how to buy expensive rifles and optics right now. I am not even remotely interested in expensive optics and rifles right now. I am interested in the cheapest setup that can get the job done. Consider it a "novelty" purchase or a "conversation piece." Or don't consider it at all if it bothers you.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by nitestalker
What rifle do I need to kill a human being at 300 yards? A better question is why do you need to kill some one at 300 yards? Mental and legal consideration should be first .
First off, I said 1000, not 300. Which shows me that you did not even bother reading the OP.

Second, I don't need to kill anyone at all at this time. I don't need to do anything at this time except pull up the footrest on my recliner. If I needed to kill someone right now I would not be typing a post on FTF. I would be drawing a weapon and moving towards cover.

However, I may possibly need to kill someone in the future. I am not a mind reader or a fortune teller. For all I know, I could wake up tomorrow to find that my hometown has been invaded by pyromaniacal aliens hell bent on stealing our pickled okra in order to use the phytocompounds to fuel a super weapon capable of causing the destruction of our planet. I personally would immediately destroy any pickled okra I found in my fridge, but I know I can't count on my wife to do so.

She is hopelessly addicted to pickled okra and would fight any alien invader hair teeth and eye balls if it tried to take hers. (Providing that the alien actually had hair teeth and eyeballs.) Of course even a pyromaniacal alien WITHOUT hair, teeth or eyeballs would be able to tell that my wife has a nice rack and a hot bum. So all this fighting would simply end up with the alien scum absconding with both my pickled okra and my pickled okra eating nice racked, hot bummed wife.

My wife would never willingly board the transport craft because she is afraid of heights, so the alien would have to carry her and the okra on foot. I would of course pursue. Having been raised on a planet with higher gravity, the pyromaniacal alien would outstrip me on foot by at least 1000 yards. But my wife really likes her okra. So eventually she would kick him right between the tentacles and smash his reproductive organs into putty.

This would cause the alien to freeze, with my wife in one hand and the pickled okra in the other, and at a range of 1223 yards, I would need to make the perfect shot. Obviously missing the pickled okra is a priority. And of course I would never want to scar up my wife's hot rack or cute bum. So I would aim for the alien.

And when I squeezed the trigger I would want that shot to be the shot that saved the world from the subatomic pickled okra accelerator of doom, and also the shot that saved my wife's hot rack and bum from some horny alien freak who really liked to set crap on fire.

See? That right there would be a perfectly legal scenario for me to take a long range shot. Would you like for me to tighten my tinfoil hat some more and come up with another one for you?

Or would you like for me to come up with a solid serious reason? Like maybe say that I'm a cop and might one day would like to attend a long range school and get qualified as a sniper on our SWAT team? And maybe would like a cheap setup to learn the basics and experiment with?

Or would you like for me to point out the fact that there are lots of hypothetical threads on this forum and that at least this one involves potentially useful information?
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 10-09-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:45 PM   #33
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Or would you like for me to point out the fact that there are lots of hypothetical threads on this forum and that at least this one involves potentially useful information?


at least this hypothetical thread has some common sense to it, vs. many of the others i have seen lately.

at the very least, it won't make any of us 1000 yard shooters, but will allow us to come up with inexpensive or budget priced target or hunting rifles.

it is a good dicussion at the very least.

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Old 10-10-2013, 12:01 AM   #34
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If you think you can buy a rifle/optics that are capable of consistantly shooting accurately at 1k yards for a maximum of $500,then go knock yourself out trying.
You can find plenty of rifles that are capable of doing it,but the problem will be getting a scope that is high enough quality to see the target,and then have the adjust-ability to shoot out that far. Most cheap optics don't have enough adjustment range even with a 20moa base to shoot at 1k yards.

Even with quality equipment,shooting at 1k yards is no cake walk,buying a rifle that can shoot that far is the easy part.
Good luck!

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Old 10-10-2013, 12:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone posted the exact opposite of the information I was looking for.

In addition to the above useless post, I have received several useless messages. So at the risk of sounding cocky and being accused of exaggerating I will explain a few things about my situation which I think are irrelevant to this thread, but that these people seem to be very concerned about anyway.

I don't need to buy a nice spotting scope or bench rest equipment. I work for a law enforcement agency. We have out own ranges, our own equipment, our own everything. I can check almost any of it out whenever I want providing it's not being used by the range staff at the time.

I don't need to pay for shooting clinics. I have several friends who are instructors for our regional SWAT school. One of them is a POST certified long range sniper. We shoot together all the time. It's usually handguns or THEIR rifles. But they'll help me with any setup I get. Whether its $500 or $17000. They don't care what I bring. They are full time range staff and when there isn't an academy or in service going on are willing to give me as much attention and training as I am willing to absorb.

I am not a first time shooter. I have been shooting since before I had the training wheels taken off my bike. I am proficient with my iron sights out to 500 meters on my rifles. I am proficient with my reflex sights. I am proficient with my handguns. I am not a match shooter, but I did win several law enforcement competitions back in the 90s and I am always among the top shooters in our agencies informal shooting competitions that we conduct during range In-Service every year.

I know I have a lot to learn. But I am not trying to learn how to buy expensive rifles and optics right now. I am not even remotely interested in expensive optics and rifles right now. I am interested in the cheapest setup that can get the job done. Consider it a "novelty" purchase or a "conversation piece." Or don't consider it at all if it bothers you.
Well then here's what I would do if I had it all over to do again.

I would get a new or used Remington 700 in .308 Win. The Remington has more aftermarket goodies made for it than any other bolt rifle out there.
Allows you to upgrade as you want on the cheap compared to other brands. The .308 Win. caliber offers a long barrel life and is good to learn this 1000 yard endeavor as it is a caliber that is difficult, at best, to shoot and win @ 1000 yards. If you get good with the .308 Win. @ 1000 yards you will generally be real good with a caliber more suited for this endeavor. And trust me if you really get into this 1000 yard stuff you will most likely sooner than later change to another caliber that "burns" barrels out. For optics I would start with minimum a Vortex Viper PST 6-24X50 ERB (MRAD) scope. Good entry level quality scope for long range that tracks well, built solid, and carries a excellent warrantee.
Side Note: Make sure to get a +20 moa rail for this scope, especially if you do start with a .308 Win.

I use a short action 6.5mm caliber now and it works real good for competition and am going for a 6mm build next. I started with a .300 WM and it is a real hot rod for this endeavor but is serious overkill for what I do. However, even though it's semi retired, I still use the .300 WM once in awhile in high altitude for those +1500 yard shots. Really works good for this.

Also, when it comes to this long range stuff it's more about exterior ballistics than the ammunition or rifle. Don't get me wrong, the rifle, glass, and ammunition are important, but knowing the ballistics of your bullet, exactly what effects it in flight, and how to compensate from each shot to shot is, IMO, much more important.

One final note: It's been said before and probably will be said again, but, it is true that this long range skill has a shelf life in that it takes nearly non stop practice to keep proficient at it. I put +/- 500 rounds downrange a month in practice just to stay on top of my game.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:39 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txhillbilly
If you think you can buy a rifle/optics that are capable of consistantly shooting accurately at 1k yards for a maximum of $500,then go knock yourself out trying.

Even with quality equipment,shooting at 1k yards is no cake walk,buying a rifle that can shoot that far is the easy part. Good luck!
Between October 1942 and January 1943, Vasiley Zaytsev made an estimated 400 kills, some of which were over 1000 meters with the Mosin 91/30 PU Sniper rifle that was listed earlier in this thread. Those rifles can be found in the $500 range.

The fact that this early in the discussion an acceptable and well documented option has already surfaced shows that the idea is not as far fetched as you seem to think.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:51 AM   #37
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learn to use a mosin and other rifle scope combos come pretty easy. the pu sniper is NOT easy to master.

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Old 10-10-2013, 03:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm14
Well then here's what I would do if I had it all over to do again..........
Thanks mrm! That was a lot of great information! Is the Remington 700 really a good option? I handled a Remington 700 chambered for 7mm mag. It was a $300 model bought from Academy. It felt like a cheap piece of plastic. It's the one I mentioned earlier that my brother in law bought.

Now granted my experience is either with handling "black guns" that are law enforcement issue and were purchased with the knowledge that they will be banging around in a unit and have a large number of rounds a year put through them, or my dad's older shotguns and rifles that are total bricks. Perhaps my perception is flawed through the lack of experience in handling other firearms. But it felt like a toy.
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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."

Last edited by DeltaF; 10-10-2013 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by DeltaF View Post
Thanks mrm! That was a lot of great information! Is the Remington 700 really a good option? I handled a Remington 700 chambered for 7mm mag. It was a $300 academy model. It felt like a cheap piece of plastic.

Now granted my experience is either with handling "black guns" that are law enforcement issue and were purchased with the knowledge that they will be banging around in a unit and have a large number of rounds a year put through them, or my dad's older shotguns and rifles that are total bricks. Perhaps my perception is flawed through the lack of experience in handling other firearms. But it felt like a toy.
if it was new and at Academy it was probably the Remington M770, not the M700. the M770 is pure junk. the M700 SPS is one of the least expensive M700's on the market right now. the factory synthetic stocks are not the best, but the action is still very solid and a good foundation to build on if wanting to build a custom rifle.

lots of M700's have been made since 1962, so there are probably thousands for sale at any time. i have picked up used M700's for as little as $200 in gun stores and pawn shops in the past. next to the Mausers, the M700 probably has the most aftermarket support in parts and accessories. a lot of custom high end hunting rifles are built on the M700 action, as well as many police departments and the military using them for sniper rifle platforms.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:57 AM   #40
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What would be the downside to buying a modern rifle and retrofitting a WWII era optic or even a good replica of a WWII optic?

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Nobody on this thread licked anybody's bodypart.

Nobody said anything.....about Glocks until you posted about your bacon dog who needs dentures.

What did somebody forget to engage their safety and shoot the dogs front teeth out? Or are we blaming that on the Glock shooters?

"Gaston, the Doggy dentist's best friend."
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