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Old 10-09-2013, 06:08 PM   #21
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Honestly, while I am hoping for more since I actually have places where I can shoot out to 1000 yards and beyond, if all this thread does is compile a list of good inexpensive hunting rifles and optics, I would be more than satisfied.
i started a project very similiar to this a couple of years ago when Marlin introduced a couple of heavy barreled varmint rifles in the X7 series. i ordered the 308 version with the 26" heavy barrel. my goal was to build an inexpensive budget target rifle. i first fixed one of the flaws with the factory synthetic stocks by adding a steel rod epoxyed in the fore end. i i bedded it with concrete epoxy for the added weight over fiberglass bedding compound. i then added more weight in the buttstock to bring in the total weight to just over 13.5 lbs. i modified the scope base from a one piece to a two piece so that the front base could be shimmed for more elevation in the future. i carefully smoothed and adjusted the trigger to just under 2 lbs. of pull weight. i ordered a Swift Premier 8-32x50 scope for it. with hand loads it is very accurate.

rifle cost me $370. the scope was $265. the scope rings were $35 and about $30 in materials. right now i have about $700 tied in the entire package.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:19 PM   #22
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rifle cost me $370. the scope was $265. the scope rings were $35 and about $30 in materials. right now i have about $700 tied in the entire package.
hard to imagine doing it better for cheaper. very nice looking,
but
you are still 40% over stated budget (not your fault). perhaps consider selling to the government and add sales tax while you are at it lol

when do you get to test it out? looking forward to targets/range report
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:29 PM   #23
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hard to imagine doing it better for cheaper. very nice looking,
but
you are still 40% over stated budget (not your fault). perhaps consider selling to the government and add sales tax while you are at it lol

when do you get to test it out? looking forward to targets/range report
but i'm 30% under my budget for the rifle! i set a limit of $1000 for the entire package. i have already tested it with pretty good results so far with 150 gr. bullets. my next step is to work up some accurate loads with the 168 gr. bullets i got to try out. hopefully this fall i will have some time and energy to work up some loads to see how it performs with a heavier bullet.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #24
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Great options so far! The most practical for long range and a decent optic looks to be the M91/30 PU sniper rifle. Keep in mind if someone is looking for a Mosin, the Russian/Finnish sniper rifles are the only ones I could find originally manufactured featuring a modified "bent" bolt handle to clear the scope. Others can have scopes mounted but it requires some modification.

I did some research on the 7.62x54R, 7mm mag and 300 winmag today.

The ballistic research I did on the 7.62x54R shows it produces clean and relatively fast killing on medium game out to hunting ranges of around 300 yards. There is not a lot of newer factory produced high tech hunting rounds for this caliber or I'm sure it could be effective as a hunting rifle out to further ranges. Obviously it was used effectively on personnel at further than 300 yards.

7mm mag was shown as effective on medium game with some factory loads at out to about 900 yards. 300 winmag was shown effective with some factory ammunition on medium to large game out to 1200 yards and beyond. 300 winmag was listed for bigger game, larger wound profiles and better terminal ballistics than 7mm mag.

Both the 7mm mag and the 300 winmag while effective out to further distances would be crippled by the optics problem defined earlier in the thread.

All 3 platforms have been successfully used by military snipers. Of the 3 it looks like the 300 winmag has the most effective ballistics at past 1000 yards. But the M91/30PU's optics would appear to be the most effective at past 1000 yards in an under $500 setup.

I would be extremely excited if there was a $500 300 winmag setup that fit the OP criteria of reliable and accurate at 1000+ yards. I do understand its an extremely limiting price range, but honestly I've found more information than I expected already. Keep it coming!

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Old 10-09-2013, 06:47 PM   #25
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Great options so far! The most practical for long range and a decent optic looks to be the M91/30 PU sniper rifle. Keep in mind if someone is looking for a Mosin, the Russian/Finnish sniper rifles are the only ones I could find originally manufactured featuring a modified ‘bent’ bolt handle to clear the scope. Others will work but require some modification.

I did some research on the 7.62x54R, 7mm mag and 300 winmag today.

The ballistic research I did on the 7.62x54R shows it produces clean and relatively fast killing on medium game out to hunting ranges of around 300 yards. There is not a lot of newer factory produced high tech hunting rounds for this caliber or I'm sure it could be effective as a hunting rifle out to further ranges. Obviously it was used effectively on personnel at further than 300 yards.

7mm mag was shown as effective on medium game with some factory loads at out to about 900 yards. 300 winmag was shown effective with some factory ammunition on medium to large game out to 1200 yards and beyond. 300 winmag was listed for bigger game, larger wound profiles and better terminal ballistics than 7mm mag.

Both the 7mm mag and the 300 winmag while effective out to further distances would be crippled by the optics problem defined earlier in the thread.

All 3 platforms have been successfully used by military snipers. Of the 3 it looks like the 300 winmag has the most effective ballistics at past 1000 yards. But the M91/30PU's optics would appear to be the most effective at past 1000 yards in an under $500 setup.

I would be extremely excited if there was a $500 300 winmag setup that fit the OP criteria of reliable and accurate at 1000+ yards. I do understand its an extremely limiting price range, but honestly I've found more information than I expected already. Keep it coming!
for a while, the Secret Service used rifles chambered in 7mm R.M. as sniper rifles. IIRC, they were Remington M700's in that cartridge. not for sure if they still use it or not.

the Army has used the 300 W.M. to some degree an was part of their reasoning to use long actioned M700's for the 308, so that all they would need to do was a simple barrel and bolt swap on the rifles they already had in inventory. the Marine corps uses the short actioed M700's for their 308 rifles.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #26
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What rifle do I need to kill a human being at 300 yards? A better question is why do you need to kill some one at 300 yards? Mental and legal consideration should be first .

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Old 10-09-2013, 07:11 PM   #27
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What rifle do I need to kill a human being at 300 yards? A better question is why do you need to kill some one at 300 yards? Mental and legal consideration should be first .
Pffft! Geographical consideration, just get closer.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:22 PM   #28
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Mosin 91/30 pu sniper model. Been geting it done for 70 years.
My first thought as well.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #29
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"If you had $500 for a 1000+ yard setup..."

I'd put it in a savings account and save for another year or so then get a good one built. Also, I would pay for a couple or so long range shooting clinics so as I wouldn't waste my barrels while in the learning phase of this endeavor.

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Old 10-09-2013, 10:05 PM   #30
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It's the Trophy Hunter XP. It comes with with a Nikon 3-9x40 and yes it's included in the price. I have not shot the 11/111 in a 6.5 but I have in a 30-06 and used to own a Model 10 in .308. The 6.5 diameter bullets are known for their extended range performance in general. I just picked the creedmoor since it can fit in an AR lower. I'm sure JPatterson or someone more versed in bullet coefficients than I am can elaborate further
6.5 is a great choice, but since I like 18" accuracy at range for targets, 6.5x55, .308 all are really 800 yard rounds. The OP posted an article that stated a 1" group at 50 yards equals a 20" group at 1000. It really is not that simple. With even a 5mph cross wind a 168gr .308 w/ a MV of 2700fps has a drift of 66" at 1000 yards. Pull that shot with what would be the equivalent of 1" at 100 yards and you are 132" off. If the 6.5 Caliber I have had a bit more velocity, such as the Creedmore of 6.5-06, It could stretch the range.

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The problem you find with most optics and why you can't get a good 1000+ yardage is elevation. I can't think of a single sub 500$ scope that tracks true with enough elevation to get to 1000 yards much less over other than the pu and posp soviet style. That's why I said mosin pu sniper. The probkem comes from scope design where the entire image moves for windage elevation. In the pu posp designs the reticle moves around not the whole image.this gives a lot of room for elevation that tracks true which is why the pu can be so cheap for its ruggedness and reliability.

Your hurdle isn't the gun its the optics. Pretty much any credible caliber can be done pretty cheap in a decently accurate rifle. Its when you go looking at optics the real problem with scope offerings arises.

When you buy a budget scope they are designed to be zeroed and left alone for hunting purposes. When you start expecting each click to be a certain value each time ESPECIALLY at near the end of the dial you run into issues with cheap scopes. They simply don't track well.

I've been through a LOT of optics and tracking at the end is always the problem. I do my testing on a 80 inch target with the aim point at the base I start at max or near max elevation shoot a group move 2 moa and shoot again groups should be two inches apart. I've yet to see anything other than trijicon aimpoint rds and nightforce optics succeed doing this and do it accross the entire range.

That being said you can work around by zeroing at those ranges and try and count clicks needed but they aren't going to equate to the advertised click setting.

I do have cheaper scopes like nikons (a favorite of mine) but I don't expect them to perform at extremes.

Anyway my point is you can find a cheap rifle capable of hitting at distance but your not going to find a cheap optic that can do what I'm assuming your wanting.

Great post! The only Mid range scopes I've used that are repeatable as far as clicks are Sightron SII big sky. Even then, to achieve 1000 yards with my HB .308 I would need a 10MOA base. The other big factor is passing 800 yards the bullet goes subsonic, making it more unpredictable because of natural forces.

Old, as in WW2 era scopes all have one thing in common, except U.S. made optics. The Reticule moves, not the sight picture as Jon stated. PU and PSO scopes have many advantages to the shooter. PSO scopes have a great manual rangefinder in the lower corner. I've got a PU 91/30 and a Zeiss Zeilver that are both 800 yards scopes at 3.5 and 4x respectfully. The fact that they are cammed for a specific round and platform make them superior in ways to what is produced today. Simplicity! They let the shooter concentrate on the target.
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