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Lindenwood 09-11-2011 04:26 AM

How important is it to have guns others could potentially wield?
I have been looking at general fun guns and I have narrowed it down to the Hi-Point 995 carbine, or an HR1871 single-shot rifle (probably in .308).

The only thing keeping me looking to the 9mm carbine is it has the potential to be used as a reasonably-effective defensive weapon for someone else (should I need to let a friend use it or whatever). However, I don't know if I'm putting too much stock in that characteristic.

Other than my personal 9mm handgun, all I'd have would be a .22 pistol and .22 rifle, neither of which are all that great for defensive uses, obviously. But, like I said, I don't know if I'm putting too much stock into potential for defensive uses. The .308 would be my first rifle-caliber firearm and I have always wanted one, but obviously the 9mm carbine would make a better "friend" gun should that need ever arise.

What do you think about my concern? Do you guys pay much mind to the potential need for someone else to use one of your guns in some emergency? I would probably be more excited about the .308, and am leaning in that direction. I just want to make sure I don't leave myself "undergunned" for when the zombies take over :P .

Jpyle 09-11-2011 04:31 AM

Why not an AR or an AK, SKS...millions of people use 'em worldwide with little or no formal training, they're fairly simple to operate and maintain; and they're a ton of fun to shoot.

Maybe I misunderstood the premise but I don't see why a 9mm carbine would be preferable for a friend to have to shoot in a pinch.

JonM 09-11-2011 10:48 AM

I think alongthose lines but its not for people outside my wife and myself. I cross train my wife on sd fitearms commonly available in the house. She recently chose the xdm from springfield as her ccw/oc piece so im prolly going to pick up a xdm in 45 for myself as a oc piece and car gun.

Its not a rifle specific issue. But if you plan on ohsht here is a gun for your buddy cuz all hell just popped up... its more a matter of training on whatever firearm he is liekly to borrow than the actual type of gun itself.

Lindenwood 09-11-2011 01:31 PM

Well, I don't want a new toy badly enough to spend more than like $300, and I want something that can be scoped (because most new shooters enjoy shooting scoped rifles--not because I think a 9mm carbine is a 200yd tack driver :P), which does unfortunately exclude the SKS, Mosins, etc (and I don't want to mess with one of those iffy scope mounts). Plus, these are just two guns I've wanted for a while, so mnah :P .

Yeah, it would be more of a matter of if I've got a girl over or whatever, or things go down and I group up with a friend, I've got an extra defensive firearm (the carbine) to give out. Most everyone I know at least knows how to handle a firearm safely, so I figured giving tham an 11-shot carbine to guard a window or whatever would be better than nothing.

You are right that the gun itself doesn't make a huge difference in what can be done with it, though, so I'm leaning further toward the .308 :) . I know people who I'd trust watching my back with a single-shot more than I'd trust others with a 9mm carbine. But, the idea was that if Im with someone who isn't particularly skilled, I could still put a decently-usable weapon in their hands.


But let me clarify that I'm not particularly looking for a "SHTF" rifle. I'm just deciding between personal toys and whether or not their value as a defensive firearm (over a .22 semi-auto rifle) should really sway me. Jon sounds like he's saying that either will be usable to some degree, and it will depend more on training than these two particular guns.

*edit again*

I am also not looking for a rifle to meet a specific need other than as something that's fun to shoot scoped. Whether it's trying to hit silhouette targets at 200 yards with the 9mm, or 3" targets at 200 yards with the .308, either would be fun for me. So, I'm asking this with the specific weapon choices aside.

CA357 09-11-2011 01:54 PM

If you only have a .22 rifle, your first priority is to pick up two SHTF capable rifles and ammunition for your wife and yourself.

ahole 09-11-2011 02:01 PM

In August of 2005 I lived in Hattiesburg Mississippi. When Hurricane Katrina hit and there was no phones no power no water no police no gas nothing. This is the closest thing to SHTF that you can get. 3 days after the hurricane a local deputy came by told us what we already knew and did arm up cuz there is no 911. Some of our neighbors did not have a gun and thankfully due to our surplus we could lend a hand. No one had to use force thank god during this but every time a new face would show and yes there where a lot of new faces, we would have two ppl both armed stop cleaning or working and go talk to the person. Most of the time there stories did not add up and we would have to ask them to leave. we did help a few ppl that came off the coast and where stranded. On the other side of town there where cases of looting and a lot of home invasions.

The only out side help that we received we not from red cross, FEMA, MEMA, ... It was from a church in Missouri.
FEMA two weeks after the hurricane came in tried to tell us what we could and could not do and tried to make us move into a camper in a fenced in guarded camp ground, offered us 3 meals a day but we would not be aloud out until the clean up was completed. That went over like a lead balloon.

even though it has been 6 years thank you to every one that did send help.

Long story short you should always be prepared to protect your family in any situation. Being from the south we have big harts and look south for each other. Its is nice to also lend a hand to a neighbor. in this case it was opening up the vault and handing out 30 plus guns that yes we did get back, and help restore and rebuild.

Please take a few minutes to pray and observe today 9/11/11

Lindenwood 09-11-2011 08:59 PM

Good story! Though, in that case if the presence of firearms was all that's necessary, a scoped .308 would still do the trick :) . Plus, of course, even a single-shot can be used to effectively barricade a doorway or window, if it came to it.

jpattersonnh 09-11-2011 09:34 PM

If I was concerned about target under 200 yards, a scoped .308 would be one of the last things I'd want. Where I live you have a very old neighborhood. We have lots of woods. That little 995 at 50 yards is a nasty little bugger. I do have an old one w/ an old Soviet 4x25mm scope. A shotgun w/ #4 lead is a great deterrent, again 50 yards. A .44-40 1892 Lever w/ 24" barrel will get some attention at 100 yards, an AK74 will start them running out to 300 yards. The problem is You would never even see someone if they had a clue until they where less then 50 yards away. Volume is the key! I have one neighbor, the one behind me that is an anti-gun tree hugger. There are 6 acres of woods next to him. I only have 3 mags for the 995, but 16 for the AK. Those 10 round mags are the 995's weak point.

c3shooter 09-11-2011 10:27 PM

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Guns? Well, I used to have some- but there was this horrible boating accident..........

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Lindenwood 09-11-2011 10:44 PM

Remember, the primary purpose of this gun for me is something to be enjoyed at the range. I am not particularly looking for a "SHTF" gun or whatever, and the use of it in such a role is only an afterthought. My own defense is pretty well covered, and I am just trying to decide if this extra long gun should have a defensive capability for someone else to use.

Think of it like this. Say you were satisfied with your personal weapons (whether it's a 1911 and an M1A, or a Glock and an AK, or whatever). Say you wanted a bolt-action rifle for target shooting or potentially for hunting, but could get an AR for the same price and punch paper just as well, but have greater firepower if you wanted. If the only reason you'd choose the AR was so a friend could use it in an emergency if needed, would you get the AR, even though you were leaning toward the bolt-action (for whatever reason)?

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