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Old 12-03-2011, 01:48 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by TCH2FLY View Post
Apparently my attempt at humor was lost translation ( the smiles and wink should have been a clue )

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:11 AM   #72
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TCH2FLY,Please don't take me wrong but just what are you trying to get across in all of your extremely long post?

Have you ever tried a barrel break in on a firearm?

I always do some type of break in process on any new barrel,whether it has been handlapped or not.It may or may not do anything to improve the accuracy of the rifle,but that was the way I was taught by a competition shooter at a young age,so it's just a habit to me.

Have you ever had a rifle that copper fouled bad?

I have had several factory barrels (button rifled),that the bores were very rough,and they would be extremely copper fouled in 2-3 shots.
If you don't clean the copper out,it will just continue to collect more copper with each bullet shot thru the bore.
When the copper jacket starts getting tore off the bullet in the bore,accuracy goes to hell.

Cleaning the bore after each shot,for the first few shots?

Now,I'm no expert by any means,but I like to think it seasons the barrel besides getting rid of small burs left from tooling the bore.

Whether or not you do a break in on a barrel is up to you,I personally like to,but know guy's that don't and their guns shoot fine.But I do have some very accurate guns,and think that Barrel break in has a lot to do with it.
There is no perfect answer to the break in question,just whatever you choose to do with your firearm.

Some people warm up their engines in their vehicles,and some just start it up and go!

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Old 12-03-2011, 09:58 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by TCH2FLY View Post
I can say that I think the listed break-in procedures seem like a mix of science and imagination used to create a time consuming ritual.

If that is your position maybe you should refrain from posting to posts entitled, "How to break in a barrel properly?"

It would cause you a lot less embarrassment.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:01 AM   #74
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Default Yes, "Really!"

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Originally Posted by TCH2FLY View Post
So as I make my final post in this thread,
So you decide to contact me via private message furthering your flawed argument, and to inform me that you aren't "embarrassed?"
Your "dishonest troll game" will not be continued in private, in order for you to forgo embarrassment.

...

The page you sent me to, with the conspiracy theory...
How to Break-in a Barrel
-- A Dissenting Point of View

...states,
Quote:
Consider this: every round shot in breaking-in a barrel is one round off the life of said rifle barrel.
The premise of the page, is that during the break-in procedure, you can't do anything else. As you would put it, "WRONG!"
More proof of my assertion.
Quote:
Another tidbit to consider--take a 300 Win Mag that has a life expectancy of 1000 rounds. Use 10% of it up with your break-in procedure. For every 10 barrels the barrel-maker makes he has to make one more just to take care of the break-in.
and
Quote:
It all got started when a barrel maker that I know started putting break-in instructions in the box with each barrel he shipped a few years ago. I asked him how he figured it would help and his reply was if they shoot 100 rounds breaking in this barrel that's total life is 3000 rounds and I make 1000 barrels a year just figure how many more barrels I will get to make. He had a point; it definately will shorten the barrel life.
As you already know, I had broken-in my barrel as I was zeroing my scope and load developing. After 20 shots I had my scope adjusted and a few potential loads to test, and had a barrel that copper fouled considerably less!
So their premise is absurd in the extreme.
Another case in point.

My 30+ year old Win 94 had gotten a build-up of carbon near the throat. (I also was influenced by conspiracy theories at one time, and was under the false belief that a bronze brush would damage my bore.)
I had discovered the condition when my cleaning patches would keep coming out dirty.
After I cleaned it to my satisfaction, I took a pic of the throat to see how clean it was and found a ring of unworn metal where the carbon ring resided.

The ring isn't what is important, but the roughness of the barrel. That is perfectly clean, and it isn't mirror like whatsoever.
So I thought if I tried a break-in procedure, I might get that ring to dissipate somewhat.
I didn't shoot 100 shots in the air further using-up my barrel life. I instead took shots as I normally would have at targets and distances I usually do. Probably took me months to do, since I take one shot a day with whatever rifle I choose to shoot at that time. It is quite possible that the shot taken in my icon was shot during the break-in period. (Which is a one shot one hit on a 6 inch square at 400 yards.)
Here is what the barrel looks like now.

So I have a smoother bore without shortening barrel life; (per your link,) "every round shot in breaking-in a barrel is one round off the life of said rifle barrel."

And did I mention it shoots wonderfully?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Pjg9sAk0wThat is a lever-action, fouled bore, .43moa group, at 200 yards. That rifle has been shot thousands of times; I expect the barrel to last thousands more... I suspect it will last much longer than I will.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't hold-up to the least bit of scrutiny... and is rather ridiculous.


I must admit, I was wrong in one area; I didn't think you'd know to be embarrassed.
...
Now I need to figure out how to block your unwanted private messages.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:12 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Kid

So you decide to contact me via private message furthering your flawed argument, and to inform me that you aren't "embarrassed?"
Your "dishonest troll game" will not be continued in private, in order for you to forgo embarrassment.

...

The page you sent me to, with the conspiracy theory...
How to Break-in a Barrel
-- A Dissenting Point of View

...states,
The premise of the page, is that during the break-in procedure, you can't do anything else. As you would put it, "WRONG!"
More proof of my assertion.

and

As you already know, I had broken-in my barrel as I was zeroing my scope and load developing. After 20 shots I had my scope adjusted and a few potential loads to test, and had a barrel that copper fouled considerably less!
So their premise is absurd in the extreme.
Another case in point.

My 30+ year old Win 94 had gotten a build-up of carbon near the throat. (I also was influenced by conspiracy theories at one time, and was under the assumption that a bronze brush would damage my bore.)
I had discovered the condition when my cleaning patches would keep coming out dirty.
After I cleaned it to my satisfaction, I took a pic of the throat to see how clean it was and found a ring of unworn metal where the carbon ring resided.

The ring isn't what is important, but the roughness of the barrel. That is perfectly clean, and it isn't mirror like whatsoever.
So I thought if I tried a break-in procedure, I might get that ring to dissipate somewhat.
I didn't shoot 100 shots in the air further using-up my barrel life. I instead took shots as I normally would have at targets and distances I usually do. Probably took me months to do, since I take one shot a day with whatever rifle I choose to shoot at that time. It is quite possible that the shot taken in my icon was shot during the break-in period. (Which is a one shot one hit on a 6 inch square at 400 yards.)
Here is what the barrel looks like now.

So I have a smoother bore without shortening barrel life; (per your link,) "every round shot in breaking-in a barrel is one round off the life of said rifle barrel."

And did I mention it shoots wonderfully?
Video Link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Pjg9sAk0w
That is a lever-action, fouled bore, .43moa group, at 200 yards. That rifle has been shot thousands of times; I expect the barrel to last thousands more... I suspect it will last much longer than I will.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't hold-up to the least bit of scrutiny... and is rather ridiculous.

I must admit, I was wrong in one area; I didn't think you'd know to be embarrassed.
...
Now I need to figure out how to block your unwanted private messages.
Thats a damn fine way to prove the point kid. I totally agree on him being a troll. People like him are the reason the guvment wants our guns-they give the rest of us the bad rep of being to dumb to know where the bullet leaves the gun at.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:49 AM   #76
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a 1000 rounds! i have read even long range target shooters will get between 2500-3500 rounds of firing before having to switch barrels for being shot out. and they use very fast burning powders and lots of muzzle velocity to get the bullet down range fast. this was why the 220 swift was notorious for being a barrel burner and the 22-250 wasn't. both were in about the same muzzle velocity range, but compare case sizes. amount and type of powder would cause the 220 to erode the barrel faster. now in the real world, average shooter isn't going to get anywhere near the point o having to switch barrels because of it eroded from shooting. competition shooters, yes, because they shoot way more than the average shooter in a year than most do in a lifetime. my barrel break-in procedure, is simple, new rifle, i shoot about five, clean with a copper fouling cleaner, shoot about five more, clean again, five more, clean again, repeat, repeat again. i do this for about the first 25-40 shots and can do this while setting up the scope and load development. used rifles, i just clean with a copper fouling cleaner a few times until clean and a regular cleaner too. then just enjoy it. when i get my new barreled action back from McGowans, i will just observe and follow their recommendations on breaking in a barrel. the way i do mine is just my way of having done it for many years, and may or may not make a huge difference in accuracy, because i have heard many differing opinions over the years, and i will defer to what seems to work for me.

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Old 12-04-2011, 03:22 PM   #77
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Kid,

That's a mighty pretty barrel! What ever you did obviously worked

But, as a newbie I lost track and am confused now... Did you follow any break in regiment or just clean? Do pistols need any special treatment?

Thank you,

P2

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Old 12-04-2011, 06:06 PM   #78
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I have a Model 94 I bought in 1973 and the bore of it looks about like the above pics. I never shot it more than 20 times, or one box of ammo at a time. It was my first rifle and I always took really good care of it. I carefully cleaned it after each use. It still shoots a nice tight group at 100 yards. I used the foaming bore cleaner named Wipe Out on it and got even more fouling out of it that might have been in there for a long time.

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:29 AM   #79
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But, as a newbie I lost track and am confused now... Did you follow any break in regiment or just clean?
I used a break-in procedure most resembling the one Winchester suggests.
Winchester: Customer Service: Questions & Answers: Question 223; What is the recommended procedure for breaking in a new barrel?
Quote:
For the first ten shots we recommend, if possible, using jacketed bullets with a nitro powder load. After firing each bullet, use a good copper cleaner (one that has ammonia) to remove copper fouling in the barrel. If you look into the end of the barrel after firing a shot, you will see a light copper-colored wash in the barrel. This must be removed before firing the next shot. Somewhere in the procedure at around shot 6 or 7, it will be obvious that the copper color is no longer appearing in the barrel. Continue applications through shot 10.

If you have any ammunition left, you then may shoot two rounds and clean it for the next ten shots. This is simply insurance that the burnishing process has been completed.
But I suggest using the recommended break-in procedures outlined by the specific barrel manufacturer; they'll know what is best for their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
Do pistols need any special treatment?
I never have with any of my pistols, and none of them copper foul like a rifle such as a 30-06 would; adhering to the bore.
Here is a pic of my 357 muzzle after firing 6 shots;


Since the copper in the 357 is a powder not adhered to the bore, I can remove 99% of it with penetrating oil.


That is after probably 500+ shots without using any cleaning solvent but penetrating oil. There is a thin film of copper there, but I wouldn't have a need to use copper solvent on it but did anyway to display the effects.


That was 5 strokes with a copper solvent soaked patch, then a clean one. A liberal application of motor oil, (accompanied by lint,) and it is ready for storage. (Remove oil before firing.)


The break-in procedure is intended to reduce copper fouling; since my pistols don't copper foul, (as a rifle might affecting accuracy when the build-up gets extreme,) I simply clean.

I forgot to mention, this revolver shoots as well as some rifles. Here is a group I shot after load development and 100 yard zeroing.

If only I would have stopped at a 3 shot group.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:54 AM   #80
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do these methods apply to handguns as well? or is that procedure completely different?

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