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Old 02-09-2010, 05:02 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Highpower View Post
I didn't see this answered so....

M1 (Garand) .30-06

M1A (Springfield Inc.) .308

M14 7.62NATO
Thanks but now I'm really screwed up...lol....I thought the M1A and the M14 were the same.

Everyday I learn something new.
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:07 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
308 based rounds. The 308 has spawned the 243, 260 rem, 7mm-08, 358 win and TONS of wild cats. The 260 is making a come back slowly with the advent of F-class shooting. It is starting to get knowledge as a great 1k rounds.

The 243 is a superb round you can load bullets as light at 58gr for varmint shooting and up to 110 gr for deer hunting. There is a 25-08 but it is still a major wildcat cartridge with no factory brass or load data for it. The 7mm-08 is another great round for hunting and target shooting alike. The amount of match bullets in both 6.5mm and 7mm is growing everyday.

Now if you want a laser beam varmint cartridge then look no further than the good old 22-250. It too has a case head of .473". This cartridge with 50gr bullets will get you 4000+ FPS and with a 40gr might even get over 4300fps.
So basically anything in the .30 family. I was just over at snipers hide checking opinions on the Savage vs Howa and after searching around I started to see that response a lot. Stick with the .30 family. Didn't learn a dad gum thing about the better action though...hehe.

Thanks Tango
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:53 PM   #33
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Didn't learn a dad gum thing about the better action though...hehe.
What are you looking to learn, specifically?
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by DarinCraft View Post
So basically anything in the .30 family. I was just over at snipers hide checking opinions on the Savage vs Howa and after searching around I started to see that response a lot. Stick with the .30 family. Didn't learn a dad gum thing about the better action though...hehe.

Thanks Tango
.30 is the darling of the military and LE becuse of tradition (military rounds) and because you can get outstanding match ammo from almost everyone that loads. Federal Gold and Black Hills are standards of the military/LE community. TAP is making a huge entry into some of the Federal agencies.

When you shoot .308 there are tons of balistics info out there and you can tap into other folks knowledge. Many folk that compete will tell you that the .308 is not a 1k round. There are many dead folks in Iraq, Afghanistan and our Mexico border that have found out otherwise. BUT there is a huge difference between a target gun and a Precission Tactical rifle and you need to figure out what you are looking to build and get your info from the appropriate websites and folks. A sniper won't give you very good F1 competition info...

If you are looking for a gun to be all it can be from the box a Savage or Howa IS your best bet but if you are looking for a platform that you can play with now and grow in steps to become a world class target or tactical gun then a Remington gets the nod just because the huge amount of accessories, barrels, sighting systems, stocks etc that are out there for Remingtons is actually overwhelming.

Does that mean you can't do the same with a Savage or Howa? Nope, it's just a little harder to find the right stuff you'll need... But I have a friend with a tactical Savage in .300 WinMag and that rifle makes my pants wet every time I see it so it can certainly be done.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:12 PM   #35
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What are you looking to learn, specifically?
I am still learning terminology and definitions so I can't really answer that directly other than I am looking for more info on the actions. A better answer would be about me personally. I can't LEAVE ANYTHING ALONE. I can never buy something with the anticipation that it will be "good enough." So I am looking for the best base starting point for my rifle.

Is the Howa the best due to its robust design, extractor and dual lugs? Is it really a sacrifice that to fine tune the action I have to send it to a GS instead of calling Brownells and ordering the parts?

Or is the Savage superior because of the accutrigger and the availability of aftermarket parts.

It's kind of which one is better, the sledge hammer Dodge Cummins that is a great base, a huge knowledge base and super strong parts or the Ford Powerstroke that's not as strong but has more power and great aftermarket support?

I am leaning more toward the Howa because of the barreled action availability with the Stainless heavy barrel. People say there is not the aftermarket support, but I see there is a stock that I like, and optics mounts as well. What else is there? I don't need a barrel, the action I will have professionally reworked and from what I understand the trigger is slightly adjustable (+-1lb).

Sorry for the long drawn out response, but since I know next to nil, this is the only way I know how to get what I am thinking across.

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Originally Posted by Wambli View Post
.30 is the darling of the military and LE becuse of tradition (military rounds) and because you can get outstanding match ammo from almost everyone that loads. Federal Gold and Black Hills are standards of the military/LE community. TAP is making a huge entry into some of the Federal agencies.
This is the reason I am probably going to stick with the .308, purely because of the off the shelf availability and the huge knowledge base.

Quote:
When you shoot .308 there are tons of balistics info out there and you can tap into other folks knowledge. Many folk that compete will tell you that the .308 is not a 1k round. There are many dead folks in Iraq, Afghanistan and our Mexico border that have found out otherwise. BUT there is a huge difference between a target gun and a Precission Tactical rifle and you need to figure out what you are looking to build and get your info from the appropriate websites and folks. A sniper won't give you very good F1 competition info...
My reasons for this build are so I can learn how to shoot longer distances, read ballistics data and put it to use. I would really like to learn how to read a distance, look at a ballistics chart and know what adjustments need to be made to my scope and be able to place a shot within two feet of the target.

Right now I have no expectations to be able to shoot even 500 let alone 1k. I know right now it is just way outside my abilities. In the future, maybe but not for a while.

Quote:
If you are looking for a gun to be all it can be from the box a Savage or Howa IS your best bet but if you are looking for a platform that you can play with now and grow in steps to become a world class target or tactical gun then a Remington gets the nod just because the huge amount of accessories, barrels, sighting systems, stocks etc that are out there for Remingtons is actually overwhelming.
I was originally looking hard at the 700, but it seems that the modern Remmington rifles aren't getting a lot of praise and it seems that Savage and Howa are more than happy to take up the slack. But like I asked JD, other than the barrel (which you can get a good one factory Savage or Howa) it seems they are all on an even playing field.

Quote:
Does that mean you can't do the same with a Savage or Howa? Nope, it's just a little harder to find the right stuff you'll need... But I have a friend with a tactical Savage in .300 WinMag and that rifle makes my pants wet every time I see it so it can certainly be done.
LOL...My brother in law has a 12FV in 308 and I love the gun, but I don't want to spend $800 on a gun then throw the stock away, buy a $300 stock and still have to send it to a GS for the action to get reworked. With the Howa, I can buy the action for $420 buy the same $300 stock and have $380 to go toward the GS.
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:04 PM   #36
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Darin, here is a thread I did back in the day that will help explain to you why different parts of the action are important. It doesn't cover the Savage, but it does cover the big three ( Remington, Winchester & Howa ) that are used in our shop to build custom sticks on.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/factory-rifle-action-best-4060/

Give that a read and see if that helps.

JD
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Darin, here is a thread I did back in the day that will help explain to you why different parts of the action are important. It doesn't cover the Savage, but it does cover the big three ( Remington, Winchester & Howa ) that are used in our shop to build custom sticks on.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/factory-rifle-action-best-4060/

Give that a read and see if that helps.

JD
That is a great read and answers my questions exactly. A statement you made in that thread was one of my questions.

Quote:
"...a bug hole shooter from any action, but at what a price? How much money do you want to throw at the problem? Why not use a good action to start with and spend the savings on optics? No sense shelling out your hard earned cash, only to discard half the action parts and then buy custom parts to make it into what you wanted in the first place."
Thanks. You just reassured my decision to purchase the Howa action.
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:30 PM   #38
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Glad you were informed. The Howa is a great starting point. It is reinforced in plenty of areas and what I really like is that the recoil lug is integral and it is a flat bottom action with REAL bottom metal.

I wouldn't worry about your need to tweak and fine tune, once you get into shooting for distance, there are ALL sorts of things to adjust and play with.

One common theme that runs through long distance shooters, especially tactical shooters, is that they are tinkerers by nature.

That is why the REAL masterminds behind long range shooters are the benchrest guys who are trying to squeeze as little as .001" out of their groups by making subtle, SUBTLE changes.

Trust me, there will be plenty to keep you busy once you start down this road.

JD
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