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Old 06-19-2012, 02:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by clr8ter View Post
You think you can make those guns for $20-$60, leaving you with a $100 profit? You thought about insurance? Or the $100K + CNC machines you'll need? Or the other things from outside sources, like plating, getting certain parts hardened, boxes to put them in, act? And, don't forget the manufacturer's license......

I think your math might be a bit off here. My figuring is based on the raw materials for the barrel (4140 is about $10 for a 1.5" diameter foot = $30) plus walnut for the stock ($25 or so at the local supplier) and the steel for the reciever and springs ($20 or so).
That comes out to $80 per gun just for the raw materials. A manufacturer license is only $150, and it lasts for 3 years.

I don't trust CNC machines. I've already built the gingery furnace and half of the lathe so far, so I see no reason why not to just build automatic lathes, blanchard lathes, etc. myself.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:11 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by texaswoodworker View Post
Matty, I like your enthusiasm, and I like how you are wanting to get guns out to the public at an easy to afford price, but this would be a lot harder than you think. The machines, insurance, parts, ect. are going to cost a poo load of money. If you do get into doing this, there are a few things you should consider.

1. Unless you want lawsuits thrown at you from every direction, I'd avoid copying name brand name guns, and stick to either military guns, or designing your own (nothing wrong with seeing how other companies' guns are designed though. It would help you know how they function, and maybe give you a few ideas.)
Another idea would be to replicate guns that manufactures are no longer making like the Remington Model 11/Browning Auto 5. I am not sure about the laws on this, so I'd run it by a very good lawyer first.

2. Focus on quality, not quantity. I'd rather pay an extra $100-$200 for a gun that is very well made, and accurate than buy one that is cheap, but either has horrible accuracy, or could blow up in my hands.

3. Get a damn good lawyer.

Good luck.

There lies the trick of the clones. Mossberg has a lever action 30-30, an almost replica of the Winchester 1894. It sells for less and is made right here in the US (yay).. out of real Americans.... Now if they can do it, I don't sell any reason that I can't.
Problem is I don't know if the Mossbergs are actually outselling the Winchesters!
This is all years in the future, however. It's a big gradual process.

One thing is for sure - the economy has shot us in the foot for new guns. Used is in because used is cheap. Why not corner the market with a cheaper alternative that's just as good?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:41 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mattybock

I think your math might be a bit off here. My figuring is based on the raw materials for the barrel (4140 is about $10 for a 1.5" diameter foot = $30) plus walnut for the stock ($25 or so at the local supplier) and the steel for the reciever and springs ($20 or so).
That comes out to $80 per gun just for the raw materials. A manufacturer license is only $150, and it lasts for 3 years.

I don't trust CNC machines. I've already built the gingery furnace and half of the lathe so far, so I see no reason why not to just build automatic lathes, blanchard lathes, etc. myself.
How much do you know about guns? This isn't a trick question or meant as grief. To make a barrel from stock metal is a process of ifs own, precision drilling and rifling. What kind of rifling do you plan to do. What type of finishes are you looking at. Also how big an operation do you have planned? Are you doing all work or farming some jobs out? Just points to ponder.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:48 AM   #24
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Hey, I'll take a dozen 1903 clones in various calibers for 160$ each, as long as they can group around 2inches at 100 yards.

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Old 06-19-2012, 03:20 AM   #25
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There lies the trick of the clones. Mossberg has a lever action 30-30, an almost replica of the Winchester 1894. It sells for less and is made right here in the US (yay).. out of real Americans.... Now if they can do it, I don't sell any reason that I can't.
Problem is I don't know if the Mossbergs are actually outselling the Winchesters!
This is all years in the future, however. It's a big gradual process.

One thing is for sure - the economy has shot us in the foot for new guns. Used is in because used is cheap. Why not corner the market with a cheaper alternative that's just as good?
I think some guns that have been around that long may be ok to do, but it is still best to talk to a lawyer about that.

If you do get all this up and running, I'd be wiling to buy a few of those guns. There are also a few designs I'd love to see made that I'm really surprised that no one has yet.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:20 AM   #26
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Holy Crap! The poor guy's taking a beating! Tell you what, I'll commit to buying the 1st 4 Gatling guns you make. Does anyone feel like building some motors?

Tluker, that piece of Walnut should run you about $30.
putting motors on a hand crank gatling gun will get ya 10 years in prison if your not an SOT or US army or police agency.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:28 AM   #27
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Yanno, in the Forties, a guy named Tucker tried to do this with

cars. The Big Three fried him up, melted cheese on him,

and ate him for breakfast...

Hell, why not piss off Beretta and Glock, too?

Offer a knock-off of the 92FS, and the Glock, well,

whatever.
thats a myth. the big three had nothing to do with his failure. he was committing stock fraud and scamming buyers by selling things with no real hope of production.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:08 AM   #28
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Mattybock, I've got the perfect first project for you. Clone the
SKS in 5.56x45 (223). there are already .223 stripper clips out there.
It would be a light handy affordable semi-auto legal in all 50 states.

Let's see---before slick willie cut off import, you could buy a case of
10 SKS's for around $500, sometimes less. Heck---dealers were selling
then for $59 and making money.

Most of the R&D is done, you should be able to knock them out for
around $35 or so. I'll get you started and take the first 10--cash on
delivery.

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Old 06-19-2012, 05:18 AM   #29
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thats a myth. the big three had nothing to do with his failure. he was committing stock fraud and scamming buyers by selling things with no real hope of production.
Ya know, he did win the court case... He was just out of money defending himself..

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On January 22, 1950, after 28 hours of deliberations, the jury returned a verdict of "not guilty" on all counts for all accused. Tucker had prevailed at the trial, but the Tucker Corporation, now without a factory, buried in debt, and faced with numerous lawsuits from Tucker dealers angry about the production delays, was no more.
He was one of those guys who always got the "short end of the stick".. Did you know he invented the Machine gun turret that was used on the B-17, B-29, and PT boats? But the military gave out the rights to mass produce it, and he got screwed out of the royaltys... He also invented a combat car, but the military didnt like it because it was too fast...
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:24 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by texaswoodworker View Post
I'm kimd of interested in his revolvers. How did Colt put him out of business?
Colt wanted to produce versions of the Medusa called the Survivor and the Vendetta; Phillips spent a lot of money retooling to build the guns and Colt then backed out of the deal and Phillips had no more money to make the Medusa any more... He also made a Muti-caliber bolt action rifle called the Wilderness Explorer... (Wish I could find one of those!!! )
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