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Old 04-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #31
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Honestly freedom group scares me. The fact that a single organization owns every firearm and ammo manufacturer in this country is disconcerting. My fears may be unfounded. I have heard that they may have people who have been involved with soros in the past in high positions. Soros would not be directly connected to a back door gun ban scheme. I ask because its been on my mind for a while but I haven't had a chance to really look into it.

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Old 04-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #32
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Mtnman, I have looked into this. I think the Soros thing is one of those Cyber rumors. I checked with some fellows who are involved in the Firearms Biz. it does not seem to be valid. I worked for the owners of Smith & Wesson before retirment but have many old connections.

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Old 04-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #33
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That's comforting. Would take me days to find that level of info.
Thanks

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Old 04-06-2012, 02:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by mountainman13 View Post
Honestly freedom group scares me. The fact that a single organization owns every firearm and ammo manufacturer in this country is disconcerting. My fears may be unfounded. I have heard that they may have people who have been involved with soros in the past in high positions. Soros would not be directly connected to a back door gun ban scheme. I ask because its been on my mind for a while but I haven't had a chance to really look into it.
Don't read a bunch of crap into something that isn't there. First off, they don't, "own every firearms and ammo manufacturer in the country". Far from it. Freedom Group, and Cerberus Capitol Management are an investment organization. The are out to make money for their clients. Much the same way Dean Witter, Kidder Peabody, ING, Smith Barney, and several others do, by purchasing companies and corporations, improving them through consolidation, and boosting profitability.

Look at Smith & Wesson. They were owned by Bangor Punta. Then they were sold to Lear Siegler. Then they were purchased by Tompkins PLC, a British holding company. This is when they had that idiot Ed Schultz at the helm, and he got into bed with the Clinton Administration with that stupid agreement. Their stock was driven into the ground as a result. They were then sold and purchased by Safe-T-Hammer corporation. They made sweeping changes in the company. They started with introducing the S&W .500 Magnum. They followed that with their own AR-15 series of rifles. Now business, along with profits are booming.

This happens every day in the business world. If anything you should be happy Cerberus did what they did. Many of these companies like Remington were on the verge of bankruptcy, and were ready to close their doors. If Cerberus had not done what they did, many of these companies would be gone forever. By buying several, then consolidating operations under fewer roofs, these financially floundering companies were given a second lease on life. All this foolishness of hating corporate America is just that foolish. This is what Capitalism brings. Look at the airlines. They cut each others throats in fare wars, then the big ones come in and gobble up the little ones. The end result is better for everyone. It's the same in aerospace. Boeing bought out McDonnell Douglas. Lockheed bought out Martin Marietta, and on and on. There is no "conspiracy theory" here. Just Capitalism at work. And in the long run, everyone benefits.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #35
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Billt, well said. Facts are S&Ws Transmission parts for Freightliner Tractors is the real profit maker. Anyway a very good post. I could not agree more. Tomkins damn near sunk the boat. I recall when they banned us from transporting firearms in our company cars. They removed all handguns displays from the offices. And these Brits owned S&W. Those were dark days.

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Old 04-06-2012, 04:02 PM   #36
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Mdl 70 you seem to stay in a state of flux. What the Hell does an NRA ad in your Winchester Reproduction rifle box have to do with this? Anyone can include safety information with their firearms. It is CYA in todays America. The NRA is a Safety Trng. Org. This always looks good in court when you being sued. I hope this forum can educate you in firearms use and history.
I don't understand "state of flux?"

I'm just saying, first you said Winchester was owned by Europeans, then by anti gun japanese, which ya all the lever actions are made there, but which is it? And why if they are so anti American gun rights, why would they want me to join the NRA? The NRA stuff didn't say anything about safety, that came with the Winchester stuff.

So what makes a real live Winchester anyway? New Haven? Oliver himself? He's was dead long before the original model 70. The Olin corporation? Who cares? Are dodge trucks any less dodge now that Chrysler is owned by Fiat and Obama? Or does it have more to do with the design of the truck? Like I says, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, I call it a duck--not a reproduction from patent rights.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #37
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the Freedom Group is owned by the Cereberus Capital Investments, which in turn could care less if the companies are making firearms or toasters. they are concerned with bottom line profits and making money for their share holders and investors. it's about making money, not firearms.

many of the firearms we own and handle today are made in different countries, many have been for years. my SA Loaded is made in Brazil, my SA XDm is made in Croatia, my Astra was made in Spain, my Stoeger Condor was made in Brazil, my Bersa was made in Argentina, ect.... i don't purchase a firearm based on where it was made but does it meet my expectations in quality, performance and price. these are my criteria for selecting a firearm for purchase. if a firearm doesn't meet the expectations i set for it when i buy it, it doesn't stay in my collection very long.

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #38
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+9000 that is exactly how I feel.

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:32 PM   #39
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You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, I just happen to see it differently.

The rifles are under Browning, who is under FN, but if you look at the design, it's nearly identical. The only differences I can see are improvements.

The feed ramp isn't filed down on the new ones because the bolt never contacts it. Why didn't they think of that years ago?

The bolt is a slightly bigger diameter, but the same design, still easily taken apart--no tools required.

The bolt release is the same, the blade extractor is the same, safety is the same, gas port is the same, the only thing different is all the machining is better and I like the stock design better. So, if you wanna say they're not Winchester's, that's fine. I have a pre 64 and a brand new one, and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well...
Yeah but isn't the model 70 just a copy of the Mauser Rifle...

(sorry, just had to stir the pot....)
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Shade
Yeah but isn't the model 70 juct a copy of the Mauser Rifle...

(sorry, just had to stir the pot....)
It's an not exact copy, there are a few subtle differences.

At the risk of starting a $h!t storm I would say an improved design...
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