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-   -   Foreign Vs. Domestic (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/foreign-vs-domestic-67405/)

Ploofy 07-01-2012 05:49 AM

Foreign Vs. Domestic
 
I've just realize that I almost always like foreign guns more than domestic ones. In my opinion, the Russians and their 7.62x39mm is the perfect round for support/assault weapons, and the Swiss make very good precision weapons, even the German war machine wanted Swiss Mausers (if I remember correctly). And, even though this is the rifle discussion, my favorite handguns are German (Though SW is in a very close second). Can you guys offer domestic companies and their foreign counterparts with pros/cons?

Model70 07-01-2012 11:49 AM

Interesting thought...

It seems most American designs are all based on foreign designs. Springfield had to pay royalties to Mauser over the 1903, the Winchester Model 70 and Ruger M77 are modified Mauser actions. Both the Weatherby Mark V and the Remington 700 borrowed ideas from Mauser.

I don't know that any American companies even build double rifles, and who doesn't want one of those?

c3shooter 07-01-2012 11:59 AM

Swiss did not build Mausers. They had their own rifle design. Swedes made VERY nice Mausers.

The Brits made good guns. Some looked a bit clunky, but worked well. The French had the first military rifle that used smokeless (the Lebel). The Arisaka had one of the strongest actions ever built.

What has always surprised me is the lack of innovation by the Chinese. They are generally considered to be the creators of the gun, and gun powder.

TLuker 07-01-2012 01:18 PM

I think American gun manufactures have been pretty dominate in lever actions and revolvers. And true the double rifles never really caught on here, but many American gun manufactures produced some fine single shots. Garand also did pretty well with his action.

America and Europe had very different cultures and needs, and that resulted in different ideas regarding what a gun should be. The double rifle's were made for royalty to take on safari in thick brush in Africa and for Tigers in India. The big American single shots like the Sharpe's were for buffalo on the plains. The Swiss culturally are just fanatics about precision. Those differences resulted in different directions in gun design.

One of histories little ironies is John Browning strengthening the action of the Winchester in the model 94 so that it could shoot the .30 WCF (30-30). That gun and that caliber went on to become American icons. What's ironic is the 30-30 and 7.62x39 are almost identical in performance. Basically the iconic Russian 7.62x39 is a modernized 30-30. How's that for irony?:)

I can't help but to wonder how much influence the 30-30 had on the development of the 7.62x39 (if any)?

locutus 07-01-2012 01:45 PM

Well, let's see. Of course there's the 1911.

Then the Garand, the finest full size battle rifle of WW2.

Then the M-16, the best assault rifle ever built.

robocop10mm 07-01-2012 03:46 PM

I try to buy American in all aspects of my life. Guns are no exception. I have S&W, Colt, Bushmaster, Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Ruger, Grendel in addition to HK, Walther, Russian, Chinese, and a smattering of Spanish military rifles and a Turkish Mauser. I pained over the possiblility of a Croatian pistol (XD) for my left handed spouse. I found a deal on a pair of S&W 99's (American/German) instead.

fmj 07-01-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocop10mm (Post 855278)
I try to buy American in all aspects of my life. Guns are no exception. I have S&W, Colt, Bushmaster, Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Ruger, Grendel in addition to HK, Walther, Russian, Chinese, and a smattering of Spanish military rifles and a Turkish Mauser. I pained over the possiblility of a Croatian pistol (XD) for my left handed spouse. I found a deal on a pair of S&W 99's (American/German) instead.

No foreign crap in my safe...American made safe housing ONLY american guns!!

I have lusted over the XD's for a long time, was just about to pull the trigger on one and seen the Croatian stamp....bought a Keltec instead.

Tackleberry1 07-01-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model70 (Post 855114)
Interesting thought...

It seems most American designs are all based on foreign designs. Springfield had to pay royalties to Mauser over the 1903, the Winchester Model 70 and Ruger M77 are modified Mauser actions. Both the Weatherby Mark V and the Remington 700 borrowed ideas from Mauser.

I don't know that any American companies even build double rifles, and who doesn't want one of those?

No disrespect but ^^THIS^^ is a silly comment.

1. The 1911 tilt barrel locking mech is the basis of just about EVERY service caliber pistol on the planet. AMERICAN
2. Lever Action Rifle was the first successful repeater. AMERICAN
3. M1 Garand gas powers op rod action is the basis of just about every self loading rifle on the planet. AMERICAN
4. Browning A5 first successful semi auto shotgun. American, yes it was built in Belguim but inventor JB is a Utah Native.
5. The Meatlic self contained cartridge. Smith & Wesson. American
6. First reliable repeating Revolver. American
7. First double action revolver. American
8. First Maching gun. Gatling Gun. Though technically not a "machine" gun, still showed the value of suppressive fire spuring development.

The list goes on and on. US inventors have been responsible for pretty much every major advancement in small arms design with 3 notable exceptions.

1. bolt action Mauser. German
2. Conical mini ball. French
3. Percussion cap "father of the modern primer" French, I believe, certainly European

Trez 07-01-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 855117)
Swiss did not build Mausers. They had their own rifle design. Swedes made VERY nice Mausers.

The Brits made good guns. Some looked a bit clunky, but worked well. The French had the first military rifle that used smokeless (the Lebel). The Arisaka had one of the strongest actions ever built.

What has always surprised me is the lack of innovation by the Chinese. They are generally considered to be the creators of the gun, and gun powder.

The Chinese were the second to have a semi-auto (The Mexicans were the first, go figure?) The Liu rifle.. But, they too had a boating accident and the prototypes and the machines to make them are on the bottom of the ocean somewhere...

I guess boats and guns dont mix... :p

BlueTurf 07-01-2012 05:49 PM

I have always leaned toward American-made guns. I have seven rifles and five handguns and they were all made in the USA except for my Beretta 92L Compact. I bought a 9mm for cheaper shooting and got a great deal on the Beretta.


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