do you guys think there is a future for caseless rounds? - Page 2
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:39 PM   #11
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I remember our supply lieutenant said to a group of us, "I could take two of you swabbies, strip you naked and put you in an empty room with nothing but an anvil. When I came back in an hour, the anvil would be in at least two pieces, and neither one of you would have any idea how it happened."
As a "former" Marine I concur with that statement
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:40 AM   #12
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Fisherking what makes you say that? is it because of the pellets?

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Old 12-22-2010, 04:22 AM   #13
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The major application would be for vehicle mounted guns; machine-guns on aircraft or ground vehicles.

As mentioned the big problem is maintaining the viability of the propellant. On a vehicle mount, the ammunition magazines would do that in reasonable (an intentionally vague word) manner. Plus, the weight savings for aircraft and ground vehicle would be remarkable.

I'm not so sure about individual weapons, unless the ammunition came pre-loaded in magazines. That would be expensive.

As a reloader, I think the idea sucks.

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Old 12-22-2010, 01:57 PM   #14
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Fisherking what makes you say that? is it because of the pellets?
I must say that I'm biased against the inline ML. To me the are a caseless single shot riffle. When the ML seasion was introduced I don't think they were thinking inlines.
F.K.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:28 PM   #15
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i just thought because of the solid pellets you were considering it caseless ammo but, caseless ammo has the projectle attached to it. the m/l question is kind of a sore spot to me as it should be traditonal weapons, it was suppose to be that way. imo

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Old 12-22-2010, 08:13 PM   #16
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The big guns on battle ships were caseless. The shell was loaded and bags of powder were stuffed in behind it. They were essentially very big breech loading black powder rifles.

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Old 12-22-2010, 08:50 PM   #17
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Caseless ammo worked on a battle ship because they could keep the powder stored and away from heat, water, light and many other factors that would cause problems.

Caseless ammo will never really work for ground force battle units. If you have ever been in a military unit that went to the field you will know what I mean. You sweat your ass off in the summer you freeze your ass of in the winter. You are rain soaked in the fall and spring. None of the military vehicles I ever had, had AC some had head some didn't. Some didn't even have roofs or doors. There is no way to keep caseless ammo out of the elements that are going to ruin it and still have it ready to go at a seconds notice.

Fighting and training are not done in clean rooms. You are out int he heat cold and DIRT.

Now if there was a way to coat the propellant with a membrane that would just burn off leaving no residue in the firearm then that would be an option but you still have to ignite it.

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Old 12-23-2010, 12:00 AM   #18
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do a search and read about caseless ammo, breach loading guns on navel vessels do not use caseless ammo, caseless ammo has the charge primer and projectile all formed together as one unit, H&K developed a casless weapon but didnt really go anywhere with it.

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Old 12-23-2010, 12:54 AM   #19
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The big guns on battle ships were caseless. The shell was loaded and bags of powder were stuffed in behind it. They were essentially very big breech loading black powder rifles.
Not just big guns on ships-
The 105 - 155 Holitzer are (were?) caseless we used in Viet Nam about a hundred yrs ago
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:49 AM   #20
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smart-assedness aside (i meant in the tradition of the G11 project)

i do beleive G11 ammo was to come in prepackaged in magazines...

firing from an open bolt would PROBABLY solve the cook off problem, though the ones that exist now ARE made of a special high ignition temp propellant which drastically reduces that problem anyway

it IS probably too expensive for all but the rich personal shooter, but thats not the issue

the G11 WAS a super accurate, extremely deadly, early war stopper, and i think with the proper care and research, may actually be viable in todays battlefields

my only reservation would really be the vibration of shipping chipping the propellant off the projectiles as i dont think being in someones 782 gear would resonate them enough.

believe me, i know Marines can break anything, i managed to break $170,000 MRAP's on a regular basis

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