[KartoffelSalat]

ive been thinking alot about the G11 as of late, im not really sure where to put this....

do you guys think anyone will ever make the move to caseless ammo again?

Regarding WHY the G11 is not in service with the German Bundeswehr, ive heard two different things...

1. the rifle was simply TOO damn deadly for the Geneva convention (seems doubtful)

2. Germany didn't have the money (seems more likely)

i dont know, seems like that would be a good thing for US troops to use even,

but to my knowledge no one is ever going to produce a military rifle using caseless ammo again

[rjd3282]

look up metalstorm on the internet. you can also find it under firestorm

the only constant in the universe is change

[JonM]

money drives everything. caseless ammo costs too much to produce in massive quantities. unless there is some amazing tech or manufacturing process breakthrough, caseless ammo is nothing but an interesting sidenote. i think of it in the same class of goofiness as the trund and gyrojet.

[KartoffelSalat]

whats really interesting? i just stumbled upon this

Modell VEC91

1.8mm 5-shot group from 100 meters......now thats a group

[cpttango30]

the biggest problem with caseless ammo is how to keep the propellant in proper working order. After having it rained on, in a sweaty LBV, drug through mud and dust bouncing around in the back of 5,000 different military trucks planes and ships.

The life of military equipment is a tough life. Me personally broke quite a few things in the military trying to get the job done. I even once welded the barrel of a 249 to the receiver. If you think someone is unbreakable give it to a Combat Engineer and he will break it for you in under 15 minutes. Once you redesign it then give it to the USMC and let them go at it. It is doesn't break in 10 minutes you just might be on to something. Your looking at a guy that took the governor off his HMMWV and would jump it when ever he had the chance. I treated that truck like a red headed step child and beat the living hell out of it in training. That way I knew how far I could push it in combat if I needed too. I even blew the pumpkin clean off a M920 tractor in the Army. Train as you fight.

There needs to be something there to protect the propellant. If is all fine and dandy in the metal storm thing because it is all tested in sunny clear days that are between 65 and 80 degrees.

[GNLaFrance]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

The life of military equipment is a tough life.

I remember our supply lieutenant said to a group of us, "I could take two of you swabbies, strip you naked and put you in an empty room with nothing but an anvil. When I came back in an hour, the anvil would be in at least two pieces, and neither one of you would have any idea how it happened."

[seedy]

Go shoot a muzzleloader for a while and then you'll appreciate cased ammo. I don't see a future for it . CD

[c3shooter]

There has been "caseless" ammo around for a long time. There were cartridges for the ball and cap revolvers that were a bullet and a powder charge held together by coloidion (guncotton dissolved in ether), the Volcanic pistol cartridge (minie ball with powder charge in the hollow, dot of primer on the rear) The Daisy V-L caseless .22, etc. They all had the common problem of protecting the propellant- and how the hell do you get a loaded round out of the chamber? We even experimented with caseless artillery sized rounds- for the 152mm (?) gun on the Sheridan. DO NOT try to throw another round in when there is a bit of spark or ember in the chamber- you may need those eyebrows one day.

[Fisherking]

I think the Inline Muzzel loaders would be clasified as a caseless riffled round. So yes I think they will be around for some time.
F.K.

[IXLR8]

Caseless ammos downfall is twofold. One, it cooks in hot chambers. Two, metal cased ammo removes a lot of heat from the chamber in the form of spent cartridge cases. HK spent a bundle trying to make it work. For limited low firing rate applications it would be optimum, because you save the weight of the cases = more carrying capacity.

The only future application may be based on the Sci-fi hyper-velocity rifles used in the movie "Eraser". Now they were way cool. The "EM-1 Railgun" EM-1 Link