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Old 11-04-2010, 02:09 AM   #1
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Default A Couple of Upcoming Projects.

Here in the next few months, I should be getting a little bit of money (around 1500) for some things I'm selling (a rifle and a bike). I will more than likely be using most of this money to fun a couple or projects I've been planning, and wanted to get everyone's advice on a few things. The two projects I'll be working on are a mid-length flat-top AR, and a Howa 1500 in .223.

I've already got one AR, a 20" A2, that I don't shoot much and will probably get rid of once my new build is done. However, for the time being, I will probably use the lower and bolt carrier from this rifle until I have my mid-length upper finished, and the Howa finished. At that point I will build a new lower and get a bolt carrier for the Mid-Length.

For the AR, I'm looking at going with:


This will be a plinking/fun/zombie defense AR, and is what I've been wanting since about a week after I got the first one.



I'm getting the Howa as a beginner target rifle, and will mostly shoot it off a bench. I wanted to go with .223 because it's fairly cheap and I'm in college, so money is tight, plus my skills aren't developed enough at this point to shoot past 100 or 200 yards.

I know a bit about AR's, but when it comes to bolt guns and scopes, I get kind of lost.

The rifle I'm thinking of going with is the Howa 1500 223 Varminter 20" Heavy Barrel.

The part I'm not sure on is when it comes to the scope, rings and base. I can't afford an awesome scope, rings and base at this point, plus I don't shoot well enough to justify getting them, but as my skills increase and funds allow, I plan on upgrading the rifle, (better optics, trigger, stock, getting it glass-bedded, etc.). So for the time being I just need something decent.

I'm thinking of going with an Osprey International scope to begin with, as they seem to be a decent scope, and are fairly low-priced (I've read the reviews and know some people have had some issues, but my cousin has one and it seems pretty nice, so I thought about giving one a shot). Later on down the road, once funds allow, it will be one of the first things to get upgraded.

That's about where I'm at as far as optics. I'm gonna go with a scope that has a 30mm tube and a 50mm objective lens, so I know I'll have to get rings to accommodate those two things, but that's about where my knowledge ends.

Who makes decent rings at a fair price? Would something like these Burris Rings be something good to start with?

What sort of scope base do I need, and once again, what's a good one to start off with?

Thanks for any and all help as I'm somewhat of a noob when it comes to bolt guns and scopes.

-Fred
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
The part I'm not sure on is when it comes to the scope, rings and base. I can't afford an awesome scope, rings and base at this point, plus I don't shoot well enough to justify getting them, but as my skills increase and funds allow, I plan on upgrading the rifle, (better optics, trigger, stock, getting it glass-bedded, etc.). So for the time being I just need something decent.
Get ready because your in for it. You will soon find that subpar optics are a PITA big time.

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I'm thinking of going with an Osprey International scope to begin with, as they seem to be a decent scope, and are fairly low-priced (I've read the reviews and know some people have had some issues, but my cousin has one and it seems pretty nice, so I thought about giving one a shot). Later on down the road, once funds allow, it will be one of the first things to get upgraded.
Which one are you looking at. They all come with rings it looks like. So you don't need to buy them. I have never seen an Ospray scope but I have used Nikon, Bushnell, Weaver, Vortex and many others. I would look at a meuller or vortex scope over ospray myself. You can get a much better scope I am thinking for about the same price.

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Who makes decent rings at a fair price? Would something like these Burris Rings be something good to start with?
Burris, weaver, Leupold all make good quality affordable rings and bases. I myself prefer a 1 piece base over a 2 piece. For that rifle I would get a picitinny rail and rings to match. Not finding what I would use for it. But here is the set up I would go with.
Burris mounts. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=965194
Burris Zee Rings: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=416175 make sure you get the ones to fit your scope. if you go with a 50mm obj your going to need tall rings.
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Old 11-04-2010, 06:05 PM   #3
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Get ready because your in for it. You will soon find that subpar optics are a PITA big time.
That's what I figured, but I'm not sure if I will have the money to get a better scope. It could just be that I've really drank the kool-aid, but in reality, shooting mostly at 100 yards, what difference will a 30mm tube and a 50mm obj make over a 1" tube and 40mm obj?

I'm kind of thinking of putting off the AR project for a bit, and spending a little bit of extra money on the scope/rings/base and going with something good to start with.


Quote:
Burris, weaver, Leupold all make good quality affordable rings and bases. I myself prefer a 1 piece base over a 2 piece. For that rifle I would get a picitinny rail and rings to match. Not finding what I would use for it.
Thanks for the info. After reading this, I did some looking and found this: a one-piece picatinny scope base It's $50, but I'd rather spend the extra $30 if it would be better.

Thanks for all the info so far Tango.

-Fred
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:17 AM   #4
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I've been doing quite a bit of reading on scopes on such last night and today, and from what I've read it seems that 50mm objectives and 30mm tubes really only make a difference in low light situations (which won't pertain to me), and all things being equal, only make things clearer for about 1x more magnification.

Plus everyone said that quality of scope makes much more of a difference than size of obj and tube.

With that being said, I think I've got my scope picked out. It's a little more expensive than the one I originally picked, but that's fine with me since I've decided to put the AR on hold for the time being. I decided on a Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40.

I'm gonna go with the scope rail I linked earlier, so now I've just gotta pick out some rings.

Will let everyone know what I decide to go with.

-Fred

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Old 11-05-2010, 02:35 AM   #5
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Found my rings as well. I assume with that scope medium rings will work fine. If not, someone please let me know. Anyway, I decided to go with Burris 1" Extreme Tactical Rings Medium Height.

From what the reviews all said, these seem to be some pretty good rings at a pretty good price. I looked at some of the cheaper ones and most said that they needed to be lapped, which I don't know how to do, so I'm just gonna go with these.

Any thoughts on the scope/rings/mount I've decided to go with? Anyone know of something that might work a little better? As I said before, optics isn't really my thing, so please let me know if there is a better option.

-Fred

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Old 11-05-2010, 10:50 AM   #6
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It could just be that I've really drank the kool-aid, but in reality, shooting mostly at 100 yards, what difference will a 30mm tube and a 50mm obj make over a 1" tube and 40mm obj?
Nothing really. Some 30mm tube have the inner workings of 1" scopes so they give you more elevation. Some have workings of 30mm scopes so you don't get as much elevation but you get a slightly brighter scope. Everything I have is a 1" tube and they all work fine.

Quote:
Thanks for the info. After reading this, I did some looking and found this: a one-piece picatinny scope base It's $50, but I'd rather spend the extra $30 if it would be better.
That is exactly what I was looking for. I was not a big fan of the picatinny for a long time. After getting my AR it is nice because you can really vary the length at which you mount on.

Quote:
Found my rings as well. I assume with that scope medium rings will work fine. If not, someone please let me know. Anyway, I decided to go with Burris 1" Extreme Tactical Rings Medium Height.
Just a note on them rings. They are monsters I myself would go with one of the thiner rings really. The TPS has a thiner ring for only a little more.

Quote:
With that being said, I think I've got my scope picked out. It's a little more expensive than the one I originally picked, but that's fine with me since I've decided to put the AR on hold for the time being. I decided on a Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40.
That is a great budget scope. That scope will grow with you for a long time.

Scopes are a touchy subject for many. Some will say (No I am not talking about you MRM14) that you need to spend tons of money to get a good scope. Some don't care and get the cheapest thing they can find in wal-mart. I say you need to get one that fits your budget and offers what your looking for. The coatings make more difference than objective size. If you have junk chinese glass it really doesn't matter how big it is it will still be junk chinese glass.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:08 PM   #7
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I took a look at the TPS rings and I'm thinking I'm gonna go with the TSRs in Low. From what I read on opticsplanet.com, 40mm objectives only need .270" of height from base to bottom of scope tube, and the lows measure .285. So I assume the lows should have plenty of clearance. Also, will there be any different between the steel alloy and the aluminum rings other than a small bit of weight?

Another question I have though is about bases. From what I have read, even though it didn't make much sense to me, is that the difference between a base with no cant vs. one with 20 moa, is that the 20 moa base somehow gives you more adjustment from your scope. From the reading I did I didn't really understand how it does it, or if it will be important for me. Is this something I should be looking at?

-Fred

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Old 11-06-2010, 01:47 AM   #8
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Tango knows a lot more than I do but here's my feelings.

I personally like to keep my scope as close to the barrel as possible. I believe the height above the barrel makes for a greater angle between Line Of Sight and Point of aim. I bought a 50mm objective for my M12 Savage and switched to a 32 with much easier ballistic caculations. If you are only shooting 100 yds it really doesn't matter that much. Check this site out to verify how high you want to mount your scope. I had to go with 2 piece mounts because it was a top load mag. and my fingers are F'ed-up. couldn't load with a 1 piece.
Bore Scope Offset Calculator

I put a Bushnell 3200 on a .308 I have and am very satisfied with it, being a lower end scope. Clear,Bright picture that holds zero very well. It cut my groups in half from the BSA that I first had on it and the Simmons would change the elevation when I increased or decreased the power setting. I put the Simmons on a pellet gun and leave it on 4pwr.

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Old 11-06-2010, 01:51 AM   #9
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FC, the new CDNN catalog has some pretty good deals on Howa's on page 39.

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Old 11-06-2010, 01:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dteed4094 View Post
I personally like to keep my scope as close to the barrel as possible. I believe the height above the barrel makes for a greater angle between Line Of Sight and Point of aim..
I'd never thought of that, but that's a really good point. I think I'll definitely go with the lows then.

-Fred
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