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Old 08-19-2013, 04:18 AM   #271
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I've read on this forum before that bolt guns, or Military bolt guns are antiquated. I'm just not seeing it. I've actually sold all my auto loaders except for 1. OK 2. A pistol caliber carbine and a 12ga. Even when I had auto loaders I shot my bolt guns more often. Would I buy another auto loader, maybe if It really feels right. I'm good with my bolt guns. I have refined my bolt guns over the years so that I've kept the ones that suite my needs. Funny part is they were proven platforms from 1800's technology. All the bolt guns since are based on that same technology. If I ever had to "bug out" I'd be carrying a 1943 M38 Swede in 6.5x55 w/ iron sights. Fast, accurate and I'd own a 400 yard FOV area. The scoped rifles I've posted pics of are all set up for 300..500 yards+, but it is the old school stuff that is the easiest to use and most effective. At least for me.


That first rifle is beautiful! What is it?

Here's my mosin nagant.





In it's case next to the scope I'll be putting on it next week when my brass Stacker gets here.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:54 PM   #272
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The Swede is a great cartridge,and is available almost anywhere.
The 6.5-284 is one of the hot rod's of the group.It has great long range performance,but also less barrel life.
The 260 Rem.-6.5 Creedmoor-and 6.5x47 Lapua are so close on performance,there's really no clear advantage for any of them. The Creedmoor allows you to make use of your magazine with the long match grade bullets seated out near the lands.
All of the Ackley Improved calibers just have a better burn,and thus more velocity than their standard calibers.

I'm going to build a 6.5-06 Ackley Improved next. The real reason I'm going to have the Ackley Improved version is just to keep the brass easily separated from my 25/06 brass,since the angle of the neck is easy to distinguish from a standard neck angle.
One of the things I noticed on the Swede is that reloading brass is a little high. That makes me want to go to a different cartridge if it will perform just as well.

IIRC, Axxe is wanting to build a 6.5-06, and since you are wanting a 6.5-06 AI, it's making me wonder if I should go that route. I already reload for 30-06, and have a decent amount of brass for it already. All I'd really need is to neck them down and get some 6.5mm bullets and I'd basically be good to go. I may look into that 6.5-06 A Square and see what I think of it. Just to be different.

I don't know a lot about the 6.5-06s, but I'm guessing their range would be at least 600-700 yards, and could possibly reach 1000 yards accurately.

What's the range on the Creedmoor?

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the more calibers you reload for, this can become a problem! some can even look very much alike. i reload for four different ones that are based off the the 30-06 and have to make sue i keep them sorted, the 30-06, 270, 280 and the 25-06.

a good sorting and seperation is key here when you reload for multiple calibers that have similiar dimensions.
Definitely. I don't reload for anything that's similar yet, but I still try to keep everything separated. I did have to sort a lot of 5.56/.223 by their head stamp, but that was mainly because some of them have crimped primers that I will eventually have to deal with.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:15 PM   #273
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One of the things I noticed on the Swede is that reloading brass is a little high. That makes me want to go to a different cartridge if it will perform just as well.

IIRC, Axxe is wanting to build a 6.5-06, and since you are wanting a 6.5-06 AI, it's making me wonder if I should go that route. I already reload for 30-06, and have a decent amount of brass for it already. All I'd really need is to neck them down and get some 6.5mm bullets and I'd basically be good to go. I may look into that 6.5-06 A Square and see what I think of it. Just to be different.

I don't know a lot about the 6.5-06s, but I'm guessing their range would be at least 600-700 yards, and could possibly reach 1000 yards accurately.

What's the range on the Creedmoor?



Definitely. I don't reload for anything that's similar yet, but I still try to keep everything separated. I did have to sort a lot of 5.56/.223 by their head stamp, but that was mainly because some of them have crimped primers that I will eventually have to deal with.
with the 6.5-06, i don't see why a person couldn't reach 1000 yards easily, since many guys are using the 6.5-284 and doing it quite well. the ballistics on the 6.5-06 and the 6.5-284 are pretty dang close in MV and drop. especially if a person was simply shooting paper targets. with shooting paper targets, you aren't as concerned about energy, like you are when hunting game.

this is why i have said many times, hunting rifles and target rifles are two different types of shooting and that trying to press one into both roles is simply trying to compromise and will many times not perform either very well.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:33 PM   #274
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with the 6.5-06, i don't see why a person couldn't reach 1000 yards easily, since many guys are using the 6.5-284 and doing it quite well. the ballistics on the 6.5-06 and the 6.5-284 are pretty dang close in MV and drop. especially if a person was simply shooting paper targets. with shooting paper targets, you aren't as concerned about energy, like you are when hunting game.

this is why i have said many times, hunting rifles and target rifles are two different types of shooting and that trying to press one into both roles is simply trying to compromise and will many times not perform either very well.
Well, I think I'm leaning more towards the 6.5-06 now. I think it would be better suited to what I have since I already reload for 30-06, and range will definitely not be an issue. Plus, finding a donor rifle that will work with little to no modifications (to the mag or bolt) will be really easy since 30-06 is as common as hay in a field.

This is definitely going to be a dedicated target rifle. It'd going to end up being pretty heavy, so I don't see myself dragging it out into the woods.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #275
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You can always have a gunsmith add iron sights to a barrel,it wouldn't cost too much to get it done.
what would be less expensive i wonder? buying one of the pricey bolt actions with irons or having a gun smith add irons onto a budget rifle, like a savage axis?

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Old 08-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #276
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Well, I think I'm leaning more towards the 6.5-06 now. I think it would be better suited to what I have since I already reload for 30-06, and range will definitely not be an issue. Plus, finding a donor rifle that will work with little to no modifications (to the mag or bolt) will be really easy since 30-06 is as common as hay in a field.

This is definitely going to be a dedicated target rifle. It'd going to end up being pretty heavy, so I don't see myself dragging it out into the woods.
the 6.5-06 would make a dandy hunting cartridge as well, in the right rifle. the down side is that no one makes factory ammo for it. the 6.5-06 is still a true widcat cartridge. there is no one making factory ammo and i don't know of anyone offereing it as a factory chambering in a rilfe. all of the ones i have seen or heard of were put together by a gunsmith or were rebarreled in that cartridge. this was one of the things that really got me interested in the cartridge. it being one of the last true wildcat cartridges.

RCBS and Hornady both offer reloading dies for the 6.5-06. many of the barrel makers offer the chambering for their barrels in it. and all you need is a long action reciever to make one with a 30-06 bolt face. then either neck up some 25-06 brass, or neck down some 30-06 brass to 6.5-06 and you are on your way to shooting a 6.5-06 rifle!
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:47 PM   #277
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what would be less expensive i wonder? buying one of the pricey bolt actions with irons or having a gun smith add irons onto a budget rifle, like a savage axis?

depends on the gunsmith. just an observation, but if the gunsmith didn't charge an arm and a leg for installation, plus the sights, i think that having sights installed should be cheaper than buying a much fancier rifle with iron sights. just my thoughts.

call around and talk to some gunsmiths and see what they charge for drilling the barrel and putting iron sights on.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:17 PM   #278
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Here's what I could find. 6.5-06 A Square seems to have the most reload data (thanks Nosler), and 6.5-06 AI seems the have the least.

This data is more spread out than I'd like. They all basically use different bullets, different powders, and different charges (some are HOT, some are not). I'll look into it some more.

6.5-06

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=6.5/06&Weight=All&type=Rifle

140 gr Muzzle Velocity - 3005 fps

129 gr Muzzle Velocity - 3250 fps

120 gr Muzzle Velocity - 2970 fps

100 gr Muzzle Velocity - 3315 fps

6.5-06 Ackley Improved

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w6506ack.html

140 gr Muzzle Velocity - 2950 fps

120 gr Muzzle Velocity - 3100 fps


6.5-06 A Square

http://www.nosler.com/65-06-a-square/

140 gr Muzzle Velocity - 2600-2900 fps

130 gr Muzzle Velocity - 2780-3150 fps

120 gr Muzzle Velocity - 2590-3290 fps

100 gr Muzzle Velocity - 3090-3550 fps



http://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5mm-06.htm

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Old 08-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #279
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the 6.5-06 would make a dandy hunting cartridge as well, in the right rifle. the down side is that no one makes factory ammo for it. the 6.5-06 is still a true widcat cartridge. there is no one making factory ammo and i don't know of anyone offereing it as a factory chambering in a rilfe. all of the ones i have seen or heard of were put together by a gunsmith or were rebarreled in that cartridge. this was one of the things that really got me interested in the cartridge. it being one of the last true wildcat cartridges.

RCBS and Hornady both offer reloading dies for the 6.5-06. many of the barrel makers offer the chambering for their barrels in it. and all you need is a long action reciever to make one with a 30-06 bolt face. then either neck up some 25-06 brass, or neck down some 30-06 brass to 6.5-06 and you are on your way to shooting a 6.5-06 rifle!
The wildcat thing is also something that makes me like 6.5-06. A dedicated target rifle and a true wildcat rifle were both on my list of guns to get. I'm getting them both at once.

Brass will definitely not be a problem with this chambering.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:27 PM   #280
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the 6.5-06 and the 6.5-06 A-Square are the same cartridge. A-Square just got it standardized through SAAMI in 1997. also i do stand corrected. as A-Square does offer a rifle factory chambered in 6.5-06. but are these factory rifles or custom rifles? there's a good question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-06_A-Square

http://a-squareco.com/Rifles.html

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