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Old 08-11-2013, 04:00 AM   #231
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I know I'm going against popular opinion here but for a true hunting rifle I want a two stage trigger. A crisp and light trigger with no creep on the bench is the way to go, but for shooting when you don't have a rock solid rest such as standing, kneeling, sitting, or just leaning against a tree or rail on a stand I want some movement in the trigger. In situations where you aren't on a rock solid rest there is going to be movement in the gun. You are going to watch the crosshairs or site bob and weave. When you first start a trigger back that ever so slight bit of pressure from your trigger finger is going to introduce even more movement and throw you off target. The travel in a two stage trigger gives you time to recover from that initial movement created by the pressure from your trigger finger and it lets you time the shot so that it goes off when the site gets back on target.

I figured all that out way too many years ago on the rifle team in high school. I could shoot slightly better with a crisp and light trigger in the prone position, but I (and everyone else on the team) shot better by far with a two stage trigger in all the other positions. Before that experience I would have agreed with popular opinion but after that I want some travel in a trigger.

Just my .02
I love two stage triggers!
Everyone of my AR's have a RRA 2 stage NM trigger in them,and although not a 2 stage trigger,the Savage Accu-trigger and all the other mfg's that have copied it somewhat,can be used like a 2 stage trigger if adjusted correctly.
I set mine as light as I can safely get them,and use the center safety trigger as a first stage,and as soon as I feel my finger touch the trigger I know it's game on with very little remaining pressure needed to fire the weapon.
It helps if you spend some time dry firing each rifle to learn the exact trip time with each trigger.

My favorite target trigger is the SSS competition trigger,it is the absolute best trigger I have in any of my rifles,but they can be a real pain to get adjusted correctly.
When you get them set,you don't ever want to pull another type of trigger,and they can be adjusted down to 4 oz,if you are that crazy,I have mine at 1.5 lbs.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:10 AM   #232
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I had the same concerns when I first tried it, but after using it and seeing what it does I don't worry about it anymore. Actually the guy I bought it from at the gun shop warned me about it being bad for the barrel and said the guy in the article I read didn't know what he was talking about. The guy in the article was Kenny Jarred and he made me a believer. It is a slight abrasive and would cause problems over time but your only running a rod down the barrel with it 10 times (or there about - per the directions on the can). Just take a patch and wrap it around a slightly warn wire brush and then add JB to the patch. My thinking is that sand paper couldn't do but so much damage only ran through the barrel 10 times so JB can't be that bad? But like I sad, use it sparingly. It's not something you use for a normal cleaning, and a good normal cleaning process will help prevent copper from building up to the point that you need JB. But don't get caught up in worrying about having a perfectly pristine bore either. A little fouling is usually needed for a gun to shoot it's best.

I've been using it for 20years now and my old .303 still has its rifling, and it shoots a lot better.
so he thought Kenny Jarrett didn't know what he was talking about? that's pretty funny! Kenny Jarrett builds some damn fine rifles. he also gaurantees their accuracy. Jarrett use to build a lot his rifles on Remington M700 and Winchester M70 actions. he now builds his own actions in house. it looks very similar to a M700 action. if i could afford them, i'd own a Jarrett rifle without hesitation.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:43 AM   #233
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so he thought Kenny Jarrett didn't know what he was talking about? that's pretty funny! Kenny Jarrett builds some damn fine rifles. he also gaurantees their accuracy. Jarrett use to build a lot his rifles on Remington M700 and Winchester M70 actions. he now builds his own actions in house. it looks very similar to a M700 action. if i could afford them, i'd own a Jarrett rifle without hesitation.
I learned an important lesson that day, the guy at the gun shop doesn't always know as much as he thinks he does. I was a young kid then and really worried about using JB after talking to the guy at the gun shop.

That article was in Out Door Life or one of the other older hunting magazines and I haven't been able to find a copy of it since. It was when Jarrett (I really butchered his name earlier) was a local boy just getting really well known and everyone was wanting supper accurate "bean field rifles" around here. That article really changed how I thought about cleaning and breaking in rifles, and that's when I first realized that there were things I could do to make my rifle more accurate. Of course that was before the Internet and there wasn't a lot of information about really dialing in a rifle then. I've been a big Jarrett fan every since and my hat's off to him. His advice really made a difference in my old .303, which was the only rifle I had at the time, and it was a hand me down. His advice made my old hand me down rifle a deer killing machine!!!
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:01 AM   #234
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I learned an important lesson that day, the guy at the gun shop doesn't always know as much as he thinks he does. I was a young kid then and really worried about using JB after talking to the guy at the gun shop.

That article was in Out Door Life or one of the other older hunting magazines and I haven't been able to find a copy of it since. It was when Jarrett (I really butchered his name earlier) was a local boy just getting really well known and everyone was wanting supper accurate "bean field rifles" around here. That article really changed how I thought about cleaning and breaking in rifles, and that's when I first realized that there were things I could do to make my rifle more accurate. Of course that was before the Internet and there wasn't a lot of information about really dialing in a rifle then. I've been a big Jarrett fan every since and my hat's off to him. His advice really made a difference in my old .303, which was the only rifle I had at the time, and it was a hand me down. His advice made my old hand me down rifle a deer killing machine!!!
there are some people who want to make you think they know more about things than they do. i have seen it in many industries over the years. i saw it daily when i was in the automotive repair industry. some of the things i saw were just humorous and made me laugh, some actually scared me because, they were putting them on the street.

this type of behaviour has been around the firearms business as well for many years. i tend to be somewhat of a skeptic and tend to want something proven to me rather than just accepting someones word on it, especially if it sounds to be too good to be true.
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:51 PM   #235
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i want to discuss rebarrelling a rifle. lots of options here. from replacing a shot out barrel with a new one to give it new life to changing over to a different caliber and cartridge. or even going to a different barrel profile or length.

lots of aftermarket barrel makers aout there to choose from. Shilen, E.R. Shaw, Hart, McGowan, Adams & Bennett, Pac Nor, Lilja, Douglas, Krieger, Broughton and many others.

most rifles, with the exception of Savage and those with the barrel lock nut, will have to be fitted to the action by a gunsmith or someone with access to a lathe and the skills to use such equipment. another option is to buy a short chambered barrel and a finish reamer in the cartridge of choice and final ream the barrel to the correct headspace dimensions. either way of rebarrelling will require some special tools, like a set of headspace guages, a barrel vise, an action wrench and knowledge of rebarrelling a rifle. if unsure, or only plan on doing one rifle, best suggestion is to get the services of compentent gunsmith to do the job.

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Old 08-18-2013, 12:54 AM   #236
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i want to discuss rebarrelling a rifle. lots of options here. from replacing a shot out barrel with a new one to give it new life to changing over to a different caliber and cartridge. or even going to a different barrel profile or length.

lots of aftermarket barrel makers aout there to choose from. Shilen, E.R. Shaw, Hart, McGowan, Adams & Bennett, Pac Nor, Lilja, Douglas, Krieger, Broughton and many others.

most rifles, with the exception of Savage and those with the barrel lock nut, will have to be fitted to the action by a gunsmith or someone with access to a lathe and the skills to use such equipment. another option is to buy a short chambered barrel and a finish reamer in the cartridge of choice and final ream the barrel to the correct headspace dimensions. either way of rebarrelling will require some special tools, like a set of headspace guages, a barrel vise, an action wrench and knowledge of rebarrelling a rifle. if unsure, or only plan on doing one rifle, best suggestion is to get the services of compentent gunsmith to do the job.
Good job Axxe,but other things that are important to note about changing barrels is changing calibers.
If your wanting to change from caliber X to caliber Y,you also need to know if it will work with your current action size (short or long).

The bolt head assembly ( If the case head is a different size,you will have to change the bolt head out,and all associated parts with the bolt.

Then comes the magazine follower,spring,and magazine box if you have a blind magazine. If the cartridge shape is different from the original,all of these will need to be changed or modified.

If you don't have the knowledge or skill to perform such changes to your weapon,you will need to find a gunsmith to complete these task along with changing out the barrel on the action. And depending on what you are wanting to do,it can be cheaper just to buy a new rifle in the configuration that your wanting.

You can find some good deals on some pre-fit barrels for some brands of rifles at times. $150-$250.
Most of your premium barrels will run from $300 to $500 depending on exactly what you want done to it.
Then add on the gunsmithing to install the barrel and set up everything else on your rifle,and your looking at around $1k for a barrel change for a premium barrel.
With a Savage,you can do it yourself for the price of a barrel,and about $150 worth of tools and gauges to set your headspace if you don't need to change out the bolt head and magazine components.

Here's a couple examples of doing it.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f35/swapping-barrels-savage-70590/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/built-my-6-5-creedmoor-today-81560/
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:59 AM   #237
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Good job Axxe,but other things that are important to note about changing barrels is changing calibers.
If your wanting to change from caliber X to caliber Y,you also need to know if it will work with your current action size (short or long).

The bolt head assembly ( If the case head is a different size,you will have to change the bolt head out,and all associated parts with the bolt.

Then comes the magazine follower,spring,and magazine box if you have a blind magazine. If the cartridge shape is different from the original,all of these will need to be changed or modified.

If you don't have the knowledge or skill to perform such changes to your weapon,you will need to find a gunsmith to complete these task along with changing out the barrel on the action. And depending on what you are wanting to do,it can be cheaper just to buy a new rifle in the configuration that your wanting.

You can find some good deals on some pre-fit barrels for some brands of rifles at times. $150-$250.
Most of your premium barrels will run from $300 to $500 depending on exactly what you want done to it.
Then add on the gunsmithing to install the barrel and set up everything else on your rifle,and your looking at around $1k for a barrel change for a premium barrel.
With a Savage,you can do it yourself for the price of a barrel,and about $150 worth of tools and gauges to set your headspace if you don't need to change out the bolt head and magazine components.

Here's a couple examples of doing it.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f35/swapping-barrels-savage-70590/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/built-my-6-5-creedmoor-today-81560/
you're right! i need to do a suppliment to this one with one on action lengths and bolt face sizes. we could probably write an entire book about actions!
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:25 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
i want to discuss rebarrelling a rifle. lots of options here. from replacing a shot out barrel with a new one to give it new life to changing over to a different caliber and cartridge. or even going to a different barrel profile or length.

lots of aftermarket barrel makers aout there to choose from. Shilen, E.R. Shaw, Hart, McGowan, Adams & Bennett, Pac Nor, Lilja, Douglas, Krieger, Broughton and many others.

most rifles, with the exception of Savage and those with the barrel lock nut, will have to be fitted to the action by a gunsmith or someone with access to a lathe and the skills to use such equipment. another option is to buy a short chambered barrel and a finish reamer in the cartridge of choice and final ream the barrel to the correct headspace dimensions. either way of rebarrelling will require some special tools, like a set of headspace guages, a barrel vise, an action wrench and knowledge of rebarrelling a rifle. if unsure, or only plan on doing one rifle, best suggestion is to get the services of compentent gunsmith to do the job.
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Originally Posted by Txhillbilly View Post
Good job Axxe,but other things that are important to note about changing barrels is changing calibers.
If your wanting to change from caliber X to caliber Y,you also need to know if it will work with your current action size (short or long).

The bolt head assembly ( If the case head is a different size,you will have to change the bolt head out,and all associated parts with the bolt.

Then comes the magazine follower,spring,and magazine box if you have a blind magazine. If the cartridge shape is different from the original,all of these will need to be changed or modified.

If you don't have the knowledge or skill to perform such changes to your weapon,you will need to find a gunsmith to complete these task along with changing out the barrel on the action. And depending on what you are wanting to do,it can be cheaper just to buy a new rifle in the configuration that your wanting.

You can find some good deals on some pre-fit barrels for some brands of rifles at times. $150-$250.
Most of your premium barrels will run from $300 to $500 depending on exactly what you want done to it.
Then add on the gunsmithing to install the barrel and set up everything else on your rifle,and your looking at around $1k for a barrel change for a premium barrel.
With a Savage,you can do it yourself for the price of a barrel,and about $150 worth of tools and gauges to set your headspace if you don't need to change out the bolt head and magazine components.

Here's a couple examples of doing it.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f35/swapping-barrels-savage-70590/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/built-my-6-5-creedmoor-today-81560/
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you're right! i need to do a suppliment to this one with one on action lengths and bolt face sizes. we could probably write an entire book about actions!
This has gotten me thinking. I was going to build a custom 6.5mm target rifle (which will unfortunately be delayed for awhile) and I'm still wide open for suggestions on it's design. I had originally planned on using a Mauser action or possibly a Remington, but the idea of paying hundreds of dollars to have a barrel put on the action makes be cringe. I'd rather do it myself if possible.

The barrel I planned on using is a heavy Krieger barrel. Would I be better off getting a Savage, or sticking with my original plan?

BTW, nice topic guys.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:36 AM   #239
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This has gotten me thinking. I was going to build a custom 6.5mm target rifle (which will unfortunately be delayed for awhile) and I'm still wide open for suggestions on it's design. I had originally planned on using a Mauser action or possibly a Remington, but the idea of paying hundreds of dollars to have a barrel put on the action makes be cringe. I'd rather do it myself if possible.

The barrel I planned on using is a heavy Krieger barrel. Would I be better off getting a Savage, or sticking with my original plan?

BTW, nice topic guys.
doing a Mauser or Remington action will require the use of a lathe or a finishing reamer to do yourself. using the Savage type action you can set up the headspace with the barrel lock nut.

with a action like a Mauser or a Remington, you would have to trial fit the barrel and see about setting the headspace correctly by either facing the end of the barrel or the shoulder where the barrel meets the action and recoil lug.

another method is to use a short chambered barrel and a set of headspace gauges and a finish reamer in the desired cartridge. this can even be done by hand. it's slow but it works.

heres a link to a book i highly recommend by Bryce M. Towsley. very good book and he does and indepth chapter on fitting a barrel using the finishing reamer.

http://brycetowsley.com/store/products/gunsmithing-made-easy
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:13 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Axxe55 View Post
doing a Mauser or Remington action will require the use of a lathe or a finishing reamer to do yourself. using the Savage type action you can set up the headspace with the barrel lock nut.

with a action like a Mauser or a Remington, you would have to trial fit the barrel and see about setting the headspace correctly by either facing the end of the barrel or the shoulder where the barrel meets the action and recoil lug.

another method is to use a short chambered barrel and a set of headspace gauges and a finish reamer in the desired cartridge. this can even be done by hand. it's slow but it works.

heres a link to a book i highly recommend by Bryce M. Towsley. very good book and he does and indepth chapter on fitting a barrel using the finishing reamer.

http://brycetowsley.com/store/products/gunsmithing-made-easy
Already have the book.

I know Savage makes a good gun, but could it be as accurate as the Remington would be if I went that route?
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