[cottontop]

Originally Posted by JTJ

If you look at the lock up of a Savage 99 or a Browning BLR you will see they are not going to stretch the cases. I used to load 308 for the 99 with no problems. Now the Winchester 95 might be a different story but I have not shot one.

You are correct. I was speaking generally and did not mention any specific models. You can add the Winchester Model 88 to that list also (if you can find one ). But, there still is that caming action of the bolt action that I like. But then again, I contradict myself in that my favorite rifle action is the Ruger #1 single shot. The caming action of the Ruger #1 is about the same as most lever actions I believe.
cottontop

[Model70]

I'll tell ya how to settle this. Do what I did and get both. 8)

[cottontop]

Originally Posted by JTJ

I have to respectfully dis agree with your definition of "brush gun". I have been taught that it is a light handy carbine designed to ease maneuvering through brush. Brush will deflect even heavy bullets. Lots of variables in shooting through brush and should be avoided. I probably just opened a can of worms.

JTJ, I have to agree with you and I was going to say something too about the brush gun comment, but I seem to stir up enough trouble on this forum so I thought I would pass. But now that you have broken the ice...
The dean of all gun writers, the late Jack O'Conner, once did an extensive study on so called brush guns and came to some unpopular but true conclusions. He found that any bullet from any rifle can be and usually is deflected by brush. He said that the only projectile that even came close to busting through brush and even then was not very effective was the 12 gauge shotgun slug.
He concluded that the best solution was to try to shoot through holes in the brush and not into the brush at all. He then stated that the best brush gun was something like a .243 (or something similar) that was very accurate so that the hunter had a better chance of hitting the game by shooting through openings in the brush and not through the brush itself. If there are no openings, then don't take the shot. Now don't everyone crucify me, I am just reporting what I read. It was in an article in Outdoor Life in the 1960's.
cottontop

[Gonzilla]

+1 on both but I'd go 7mm RM in the bolt. I think I read the O Conner article and even the 458 WM was deflected but even sideways it w make an impression.

[The_Kid]

Originally Posted by cottontop

Nothing wrong with that, unless you reload, then a bolt is a little more efficient; i.e., doesn't stretch case necks as much, one does not have to full length resize every time to get the shells to chamber, the bolt has more caming action, and it won't throw the empty brass into the next county. Plus there is the peace of mind in knowing that a bolt action has a little more strength in specific places in case of a blown cartridge.
cottontop

My necks don't stretch in my 30-30. I don't full-length size them either. I''ve never had a 30-30 case fail for any reason and I have over 50 firings on many.

And for the reach out and touch someone factor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsTFPdlQ2uw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsTFPdlQ2uw

That is the last 3 shots that rifle has taken at over 300 yards... that is a 3.5 inch group.

[The_Kid]

I'd like to comment on the "brush gun" "shooting through brush" issue.

Be certain of your target and what’s beyond it. Positive target identification is a must. To shoot at something you only think is a legal target is gambling. In the case of human injury, that means gambling with human life. You must be absolutely certain and correct in judgment before deciding to shoot. Otherwise, it’s reckless behavior. In addition to identifying the target, a hunter must know that a safe backstop for their bullet is present in every shooting situation. We don’t always hit our target, and, in some cases, the bullet passes through the target. A safe backstop guarantees that no one will get hurt.

Shooting through brush, violates that rule.

[cottontop]

Originally Posted by The_Kid

My necks don't stretch in my 30-30. I don't full-length size them either. I''ve never had a 30-30 case fail for any reason and I have over 50 firings on many.

And for the reach out and touch someone factor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsTFPdlQ2uw
That is the last 3 shots that rifle has taken at over 300 yards... that is a 3.5 inch group.

You are the exception rather than the rule. Good for you. (50 firings? seriously?)
cottontop

[cottontop]

Originally Posted by Gonzilla

+1 on both but I'd go 7mm RM in the bolt. I think I read the O Conner article and even the 458 WM was deflected but even sideways it w make an impression.

I hope you are not serious and are not advocating such usage. To intentionally shoot at a game animal knowing that your round may keyhole and may or may not hit the animal is unsportsman like and totally irresponsible.
cottontop

[therewolf]

Let me put it like this. I'm looking for a 30.06 bolt-action as we speak.

I don't have, and may probably never own, a 30-30.

But that's just my caliber planning. I use the Marlin 44Mag lever gun

for my short range and "brush work".

[ineverFTF]

If your dertermined to get a 30-06 id suggest the browning xbolt or the ruger mark 7 both fabulous guns. Ive fired both in 30-06 and the xbolt has less recoil with a 180 grain the mark 7 recoils a little more same (same round) but has a better trigger.