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Old 10-25-2011, 11:54 PM   #81
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Because the lighter bullet has less momentum? Because the PSL’s barrel expanded and didn’t spin the bullet as well? If the PSL is shot as ‘slowly’ as the PU 01/30 is so it doesn’t heat up any more than the bolt action, do the shots still wander? Bottom line; Would a sniper miss center mass with the PSL that they would hit with the PU 91/30?
The lighter bullet actually has a faster MV, but a lower BC and SD. Ballistic Coefficient is basicly having better balance. After 400 yards the heavier bullet actually has the advantage. Although it is still traveling slower, the extra mass weight + the higher BC and Sectional density will allow it to fly straiter, and penetrate deeper.
This is the reason for larger weight bullet classes like .338 in modern sniper rifles.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:25 AM   #82
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The lighter bullet actually has a faster MV, but a lower BC and SD. Ballistic Coefficient is basicly having better balance. After 400 yards the heavier bullet actually has the advantage. Although it is still traveling slower, the extra mass weight + the higher BC and Sectional density will allow it to fly straiter, and penetrate deeper.
This is the reason for larger weight bullet classes like .338 in modern sniper rifles.
Oh oh! MV, BC & SD. Mass, speed, aerodynamics. Science! I have to go do some homework. See you later.
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:00 AM   #83
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I think we are on the same page, but let me make sure I haven't mislead you.....

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This is what I suspected, but wasn't sure. So unless one is in a target contest scoring points on paper, the difference in accuracy between a bolt action & an auto is academic as far as an effective sniper being able to hit his target's CM. (I'm leaving aside the ability to fire upon subsequent targets or follow up shots.)
When I wrote, "With all the different rifles, ammo and shooters, for the most part I think most will agree, the bolt action rifle is more accurate than most autoloading rifles. But when you narrow the field to most of the common factory available precision bolt action rifles, to most of the common factory available precision autoloaders, there may be little difference in the MOA accuracy in general.", I was speaking of two different rifle systems producing about the same results. To get into the dirty business of accuracy, pretty much regardless of which system a sniper uses, it has to have consistent accuracy under most field condition of 1 MOA. That doesn't mean is shoots 1 MOA groups on a good day, on a good day a 1 MOA gun will shoot something like 1/2" or 5/8" groups at 100 yards. This kind of field operational accuracy is obtainable in either the bolt action or auto-loading precision rifles. I think that clarifies my opinion....but, it's just an opinion.

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Old 10-26-2011, 02:12 AM   #84
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Default Thanks a LOT! guys !! Now I am hooked @ Precision Tactical Weaponry!

And I have set my budget at $2000 over two years, plus glass. I'd like your opinion of which of my stable of long-guns I should employ as candidates for (theoretical, just a convenient number) a 1000-yd tack-driver. I have: Savage, Model III, .270, long action, box-mag. (not the "Youth gun"); DPMS Panther", .7.62x51, Roggio upper, Columbia lower, medium wt. bbl., Lone Eagle ssp, 14" bbl, Marlin Model 1894, .44 Mag., 20-in bbl., & NEW ENGLAND FIREARMS .223, single, HandiRifle. Or do I start shopping for bigger steel?? Thanks.

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Old 10-26-2011, 04:51 AM   #85
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That Savage will do 1000 yards pretty easy if you can do your part. You will have enough money left for some really decent glass too. $2000 will get you to 1000 yards if you don't count ammo.

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Old 10-26-2011, 04:57 PM   #86
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Default That's what wanted to hear !!! On my WAY !! Your fault !

Also, there come up some pretty interesting long scopes from time to time on line. Any suggestion as to power, obj.-size, brands, internal lights, kinds of reticles ... ... and does anyone have anything reasonably good for sale now, here? Keep the $ $ $ in "the family"! Looking at some numbers - the High & Impressive in scopes, how good, if at all is this scope : "AGN, 6~18X65 mm"? I still am shopping HERE for any of your offers for an entry-level item. Thanks. BTW, I only count ammo when in tactical CQB with my handguns, in case I need to top off, or change to a full mag! (LOL)

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That Savage will do 1000 yards pretty easy if you can do your part. You will have enough money left for some really decent glass too. $2000 will get you to 1000 yards if you don't count ammo.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:48 PM   #87
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It really depends on what your budget is Smarerif. For 1000 yards I would want to go with something at least as good as a Weaver T36 or something along those lines. They are considered to be one of the cheapest really good scopes you can get. But cheap is different for everyone. They cost about $400 new. If you shoot where there's lots of heat a less powerful scope would probably be a better idea. You won't have mirage problems. I like more powerful scopes because my eyes aren't what they used to be. But if you have good eyesight an 18X scope would be enough. People do 1000 yards with no scope at all actually. I'm not one of them people though. I'd want to get something with clear glass for that distance because it can make a big difference once you start getting out past 500 yards especially.

The main thing about shooting 1000 yards is lots and lots and lots of practice though. It's not something a person can just walk out and do without learning a lot. That's what I hear anyway. I don't have any place to try to shoot that far.

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Old 11-02-2011, 02:57 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by jpattersonnh
The lighter bullet actually has a faster MV, but a lower BC and SD. Ballistic Coefficient is basicly having better balance. After 400 yards the heavier bullet actually has the advantage. Although it is still traveling slower, the extra mass weight + the higher BC and Sectional density will allow it to fly straiter, and penetrate deeper.
This is the reason for larger weight bullet classes like .338 in modern sniper rifles.
300 ultra mag christensen arms with the carbon fiber barrel I use a leupold 5x20x50 with this set up I can smoke pie plates at up to 1200 yards never fired a round at game over 400 tho I believe that its my duty to cleanly harvest game not wound them
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:17 AM   #89
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And I have set my budget at $2000 over two years, plus glass. I'd like your opinion of which of my stable of long-guns I should employ as candidates for (theoretical, just a convenient number) a 1000-yd tack-driver. I have: Savage, Model III, .270, long action, box-mag. (not the "Youth gun"); DPMS Panther", .7.62x51, Roggio upper, Columbia lower, medium wt. bbl., Lone Eagle ssp, 14" bbl, Marlin Model 1894, .44 Mag., 20-in bbl., & NEW ENGLAND FIREARMS .223, single, HandiRifle. Or do I start shopping for bigger steel?? Thanks.
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That Savage will do 1000 yards pretty easy if you can do your part. You will have enough money left for some really decent glass too. $2000 will get you to 1000 yards if you don't count ammo.
i think that if you are wanting to shoot 1000 yrds, you are going to have to either spend a lot of money on a proven performer or build one. most off the shelf rifles are not going to be capable of doing that. personally i don't think $2000 is going to get you there either. i am in the process of building a custom target rifle, a 6.5mm-06, and will have in the range of $3000-3500 just i the rifle, then add the $1500-2000 for the scope. i will also be handloading for it to get every bit of conceivable accuracy out of it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:53 PM   #90
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i think that if you are wanting to shoot 1000 yrds, you are going to have to either spend a lot of money on a proven performer or build one. most off the shelf rifles are not going to be capable of doing that.
Are you not familiar with the Savage F class and F/TR rifles? Both shoot in competition against custom built rifles and win quite often. And we're talking off the shelf rifles shooting at 1000 yards. I suggest you read the news release on this web page. Here's a quote from there:

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"Team Savage and their Model 12 target rifles have won so many long-range competitions (many over shooters with custom rifles costing thousands of dollars more than theirs) that they have lost count … Seriously.

...At these matches, elite shooters from around the world compete at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards. The two matches combined constitute a “Super Aggregate”, or continental title.

In that Super Aggregate tally, the Team Savage shooters swept the top four spots. It doesn’t get any better than that."
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