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Old 01-09-2014, 05:04 PM   #11
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Uh....congrats? Are you wanting a medal, or a chest to pin it on?

Maybe our definitions of 'good quality ammunition' as you put it, are different. Compared to precision loads, yes, most factory stuff is sloppy. Weigh a few. Measure a few. Weigh a few charges. If that stuff is your idea of acceptable, fine. Yes, there are some factory stuff that is better than others. And Im sure that even the premium lines will come in 2nd to a precision handload. So I will continue to call anything less than consistant precision, sloppy.
i have to disagree about the factory ammo as well. most major brands of ammo is pretty well put together. i have shot even the lesser expensive types with good results of accuracy. the advantage of reloading is the ability to fine tune for even higher potential of accuracy from the rifle. not that the ammo is sloppy. most people who reload are looking for increased accuracy as result of their efforts. but that doesn't mean factory ammo is less accurate, just that most reloaders are looking to make more accurate ammo cheaper than the cost of premium ammo.

example. a box of premium Winchester Ballistic Silvertips in 140 grain for my 280 Remington costs me about $45 a box of 20. i can make that same quality of ammo using new brass for about $32 a box of 20. reusing that brass the cost has dropped to about $11 a box of 20. so i can now shoot about 60-80 rounds for the cost of one premium box of factory loaded ammo.

the brass has always been the most expensive portion of most ammo reloading. and by fine tuning the bullets and the powder charges to a particular rifle it's possible to make ammo that is more accurate. factory ammo is made to perform well in hundreds of thousands of rifles. handloaded ammo is made to perform much better in usually one rifle.
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:37 PM   #12
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Uh....congrats? Are you wanting a medal, or a chest to pin it on?
Nope. Already have both. As for the factory Hornady Whitetail I was talking about and don't get me wrong, I love reloading and I believe my reloads are superior but there is definitely good factory ammo out there.

I have 5rds of the whitetail ammo left. Im not going to pull any bullets and weigh the bullet, the powder, the brass like I normally do when I am loading but I did take them down and weigh them and I can say I wasn't surprised because they shot very well.

1st 385.6gr
2nd 387.0gr
3rd 386.6gr
4th 386.3gr
5th 385.3gr

That is $23 box of ammo and its anything but sloppy. Less than 2gr difference. If I loaded them I would be satisfied with the results.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #13
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Will one of you please answer the question. What do y'all think is too hot to run in your gun over 4000 or in the 3800+ area?

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:18 PM   #14
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Will one of you please answer the question. What do y'all think is too hot to run in your gun over 4000 or in the 3800+ area?
anytime you run a large case with a small bullet and push them at high velocity, you run the risk of throat erosion. a 243 case running a 55 gr. bullet at 3800 fps and above is pushing high velocity and running the chance of faster wear on the throat of the chamber.

i have a load for using a 75 gr. bullet in my 25-06, but very seldom load them or shoot them. it approaches the 3700-3800 fps range in velocity.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:27 PM   #15
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Will one of you please answer the question. What do y'all think is too hot to run in your gun over 4000 or in the 3800+ area?
.243 with a 58gr or 62gr is in the 3800-3850fps range. 80-85gr is 3100-3300fps range. 90-100gr is 3000-2950fps range. Your rifle should shoot all of them. Buy some and shoot and see what you and your rifle likes. I don't shoot any lower than 85gr in my .243. If I want to go lower grain bullet I use my .223.

Those velocities are just guesstimations. Nothing scientific. BTW velocity doesn't mean its more accurate or better. If I was shooting 400+yrds I wouldn't use a 58gr V-Max. I would want a bullet with a high ballistic coefficient and that would be in the 80-105gr range.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:30 PM   #16
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As a rule you need a faster twist barrel to handle the heavier bullets. A good example of this is the AR-15 223/5.56 cal rifles. The 1:12 slower twist will not stabilize bullets much over 55 grain bullets. If you shoot heavier they will not stabalize in flight and you will get key hole or side stikes on the target. So in order to shoot the heavier bullets like the 69 and 70 grain bullets you need a faster twist. 1:9 / 1:7 / 1:8. The 1:9 is good as a rule for 55 grain to 68 grain while the 1:7 and 1:8 twists will also handle the heavier bullets up to 80 grain if you could load them in a magazine which you can not due to overall length. But I have shot a 243 Winchester caliber rifles since the 70s. And I would say anything over 3600 Fps you are adding to the throat erosion much quicker than normal. And especially up around 3800-4000 range. That is why the 220 SWIFT Rifles were notorious for burning up the throat at 4300 fps. My suggestion is to stay max around 3600 or less. 3500 is about the norm for factory 243 ammunition

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:31 PM   #17
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Bamashooter and everyone lol I know about what most bullets are traveling at. The question is you can damage the throat of the barrel by running hot loads. I'm thinking about starting to reload what would be too hot of a round because I don't wanna mess the throat up. So what would be the most comfortable speed to shoot through it.

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:32 PM   #18
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Thanks sniper03 for finally answering the question

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Old 01-09-2014, 07:52 PM   #19
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Bamashooter and everyone lol I know about what most bullets are traveling at. The question is you can damage the throat of the barrel by running hot loads. I'm thinking about starting to reload what would be too hot of a round because I don't wanna mess the throat up. So what would be the most comfortable speed to shoot through it.
first of all you need to determine what the load you work up, is going to used for. so you need to choose a bullet weight that will do the intended job for that load. is there a need to run that fast of a velocity to begin with? velocity does not always equal accuracy.

anytime you run really hot loads that have small bullets, you run the risk of throat erosion. it's part of the price you pay for that joy of shooting very fast and small bullets with a large case. if throat erosion is a big concern, then stepping down in velocity is what is needed.

case in point. my father has Winchester M70 in 243 he bought in the late 1960's that he has reloaded his own ammo for well over forty years and has many thousands of rounds and hasn't lost any accuracy yet. but he never looked for velocity, but accuracy over the years. most of his loads he made for the rifle were in the 80-105 gr. weight range.

now if you want to run 55-60 gr. weight bullets at around 3800-4000 fps range, then there is the possibility that increased throat erosion is going to occur. how many rounds before accuracy starts to fall off is a guess at best. but how fast it takes within that range is a guess too. if it takes say, 3000 rounds to wear out the throat that accuracy is degraded, and you shoot 150 rounds a year, that's about 20 years until you see the accuracy degrade. now if you shoot about 500 rounds in a year, that is now down to six years and if you shoot 1000 rounds a year, you are now down to three years before looking at a barrel change.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:07 PM   #20
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first of all you need to determine what the load you work up, is going to used for. so you need to choose a bullet weight that will do the intended job for that load. is there a need to run that fast of a velocity to begin with? velocity does not always equal accuracy.

anytime you run really hot loads that have small bullets, you run the risk of throat erosion. it's part of the price you pay for that joy of shooting very fast and small bullets with a large case. if throat erosion is a big concern, then stepping down in velocity is what is needed.

case in point. my father has Winchester M70 in 243 he bought in the late 1960's that he has reloaded his own ammo for well over forty years and has many thousands of rounds and hasn't lost any accuracy yet. but he never looked for velocity, but accuracy over the years. most of his loads he made for the rifle were in the 80-105 gr. weight range.

now if you want to run 55-60 gr. weight bullets at around 3800-4000 fps range, then there is the possibility that increased throat erosion is going to occur. how many rounds before accuracy starts to fall off is a guess at best. but how fast it takes within that range is a guess too. if it takes say, 3000 rounds to wear out the throat that accuracy is degraded, and you shoot 150 rounds a year, that's about 20 years until you see the accuracy degrade. now if you shoot about 500 rounds in a year, that is now down to six years and if you shoot 1000 rounds a year, you are now down to three years before looking at a barrel change.
Axxe I get all that I was just curious is to what it takes to damage the throat ill probably just be using the rifle for target and coyote hunting out to 500 max
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