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Old 08-15-2010, 02:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
Be careful with the Tubbs system it is like shooting sandpaper down your barrel and the only thing it will really do is wear it out even faster.

As for the OP get the outters foul out system and clean the bore then just go from there. Every time you shoot the thing you are firelapping the barrel.

At this point,I'm not worried about wearing the barrel out.I'm just tired of it being a Copper Mine,and about the most it will do is erode the throat,and that's only if you use the first 2 coarse grit sets of bullets.

Tango,You can make one of these for around $20.
I tried mine out after I got off work.This thing actually works,but I need to get some industrial strength ammonia.The stuff I bought at the store just isn't strong enough to cut the copper,but man,did it really clean out the bore.
I took some pics of the process.I'll post them later.

Right now I'm soaking the barrel with the foam cleaner,trying to get more copper out.
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:05 AM   #12
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Contact Marshall Stanton of Bear Tooth Bullets. He makes a great cast lead system for fire lapping. He knows his Sh!t.
Beartooth Bullets Secure Online Shopping

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Old 08-15-2010, 03:16 PM   #13
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Tx, I got my ammonia at Ace Hardware. It is 10% janitorial strength. There is more concentrated avaliable, but I don't know where to get it. Be careful with that stuff cause it will get you to wheezing in short order.

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Old 08-15-2010, 04:22 PM   #14
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Since we got on this big bore cleaning kick, I have been going back through my two gun safes and pulling out all my rifles--Garands, 03s, M1As, Rem 742 ect and have gone to work on them. It is supprising what I am getting out of bores that previously I thought were clean enough.
Working with the .300 WM and my sons .30-06 was the catalyst that really got me started when I discovered just how much copper fouling could effect accuracy.
I really appreciate all the input this thread has received because I have really learned a bunch of good stuff in short order.

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Old 08-16-2010, 02:14 AM   #15
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Tx, I got my ammonia at Ace Hardware. It is 10% janitorial strength. There is more concentrated avaliable, but I don't know where to get it. Be careful with that stuff cause it will get you to wheezing in short order.
I don't think anything can be as bad as the Montana Extreme bore cleaner I have.That stuff will wake up the dead!
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:42 PM   #16
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Well,I finally got all the copper out of the 25/06.It only took 3 1/2 days of cleaning with the Electric setup,some hard scrubbing,and alot of soaking the barrel overnite with bore cleaning foam.No more BLUE patches-Yippee!

Now if it will ever cool off around here,I'm getting tired of the 100+* days.
The heat is bad enough,I have to wear a fire suit while I'm working on the Gas wells at work so it might as well be 150* outside.
I still need to load the Final Finish bullets and see if I can get the bore smoothed out in this barrel.

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Old 08-21-2010, 07:39 AM   #17
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wouldn't ammonia etch the metal in the bore after a while?

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Old 08-21-2010, 03:30 PM   #18
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Carbon, steel, aluminum or stainless steel may be used for storing and handling aqua ammonia. If high purity is a requirement, these materials should be restricted to stainless steel and aluminum, or as an alternative, lined tanks. Carbon steel is the most commonly used material for aqua ammonia storage. Due to mill scale and rust found on carbon steel, initial passivation of carbon steel tanks is recommended.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=19&ved=0CDEQFjAIOAo&url=htt p%3A%2F%2Fwww.tet-terra.com%2Fdownloads%2Fammonia_tech_manual_2008.p df&rct=j&q=ammonia%20attacking%20steel%3F&ei=ZexvT PS9JI_2swOqjL3BCw&usg=AFQjCNFCnyCyUemYD-BNqaUi6UdqRkmuDQ&cad=rja

The RUST that develops from leaving it in the bore too long comes from the water that the ammonia is put into solution with.
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Old 08-21-2010, 05:32 PM   #19
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I use Sweets 7.62 brand ammonia based cleaner from time to time and as I recall the directions on the bottle says not to leave the solution in the barrel for more than 15 minuets as it may etch the finish on the barrel. Now this stuff works real good but I use it very seldom and leave it in for only a few minuets at a time before getting it all out. I've used Sweets primairly on my M1A when it used to get near 1000 rounds or so pumped down the pipe in a single session of shooting. (Me and a few other fellows having too much fun sharing it between ourselves in one day)

That being said, I'd like to add that I subscribe to the theory (if it is a theory) that most all the copper that gets in the barrel is coming from the throat of the barrel. You see, by the nature of the process of making and finishing a barrel there are "tooling" marks left in the throat of the barrel. They look like super fine file marks of the surface of the throat of the barrel.

That nano-second or so when the bullet takes up the clearance in the throat before it hits the lands of the barrel, the heat is so intense that some of the copper off the bullet actually turns to a plasma with all the other expanding gasses following the actual bullet as it travels down the barrel. The copper then is falling out of suspension with the other gasses following the bullet down the barrel and sticking to the barrel.

Copper sticks to itself better that it sticks to the barrel and "breaking-in" a barrel with the one shot and clean for several cycles then 3 shots and clean, and so on is really letting the bullets "polish out" the throat and keeping the build up of coppepr in the barrel to a minimum during this process. It's much easier to clean a little copper out at a time than to let it build up and then clean it out. The copper build up never actually goes away, but in time will reduce in amount of indications of it being in the barrel when cleaning.

A hand lapped barrel will usually show reduction of copper build up fairly quick when compaired to a factory barrel which is usually not hand lapped.

Well theres my 2 cents worth and it is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Also, if you measure your COAL of your rifle you will usually find quite a bit of clearance between the throad of the barrel in relation to the bullet. SAMMI specs and all. In my Remmy 700 I had about .013" clearance in this area. I reload for accuracy, so I seat my bullets for this Remmy 700 rifle of mine to about .004" clearance to the throat. Along with improving accuracy (reduced bullet jump), I notice less a problem of natural copper build up in the barrel.

WARNING
Reloading like this makes the ammuition specific to just that rifle and may be dangerous in another rifle even if of same brand and caliber.

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