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Another AR and AK Myth debunker


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Old 03-26-2015, 10:38 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by schnuffleupagus View Post
What is this guy shooting?

Steyr AUG?
H&K ?
FN?
Enfield?
Sounds like that would be a Brown Bess. (A big step up from modern gas systems)


Both the AK piston system and the piston-operated AR are muzzle heavy compared to the original AR. No big deal in a service rifle, but a small disadvantage in a personal sports rifle. I found that the Tavor balances better because it's piston weight is shifted back toward the shooter.

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:20 PM   #82
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Sounds like that would be a Brown Bess. (A big step up from modern gas systems)


Both the AK piston system and the piston-operated AR are muzzle heavy compared to the original AR. No big deal in a service rifle, but a small disadvantage in a personal sports rifle. I found that the Tavor balances better because it's piston weight is shifted back toward the shooter.
Hm..sounds interesting.I don't have enough experience with the tavor, but heard several positive reviews about it.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:44 PM   #83
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And I must admit regarding weapons I was very upset when the Military (Army) took my beloved M-14 away from me and issued me a Matty Mattel Otherwise known as the AR-15s in the beginning. (M-16s) I still had two NM M-14s while competing on the rifle team but my assigned weapon was the ARs.
The beginning AR Rifles also got a bad rap in the beginning because those that adopted the weapon never gave it enough forethought that being in the jungles the chamber and the bore should have been chrome lined. Since rust and corrosion created serious feed and extraction problems. Which in time they were chrome lined! Today the AR rifles of all configurations are some of the finest most reliable and accurate rifles available today. Some even achieving 1/4 MOA groups at 100 yards. There is nothing wrong at all with the Kalashnikov rifles (AKs) I love them as well! But they are certainly less accurate. But they were designed to be combat rifles only! But as mentioned very reliable if it is a quality built AK. And great rifles at that!
But for a choice of combat weapon should the SHTF I would still choose the modern day AR over most. Due to the availability of 223/5.56 Ammunition. Advisaries would also have similar weapons and ammunition to be reclaimed from them upon their demise. And the ammunition is readily available and found at various locations in the civilian world. The ease and expediency of loading as well as reliability and the ability of accessories to be easily changed and mounted to the weapon system. For example like NV and Thermal can be easily mounted and removed. Also the light weight of the weapon and accurate speed of acquisition on target. Still love the M-14 however!

03
I think the above pretty well sums it up!! Most are not aware of the two primary 'causes' of the early problems with the M-16. They were:
1. Lack of proper maintenance, due to lack of knowledge and training, not to mention will full neglect.
2. Many powders used by various DOD contractors did not produce the 'proper' pressure curve for the DI system to operate at it's best. The DOD specs only stated the type of bullet to be used and the MV it was to fired at thus many of the rounds were loaded with powder which achieved the desired MV with no consideration to the pressure at the gas port!!!
I have been using the AR platform since 1968 in the military, LE, and private life. I was a unit armorer in RVN in 68 and have first hand experience with the problems and the fixes!
I have used or owned more AR's that I can even count and I have never experienced, personally, any major problems with any of them. I own both the DI and the GP ones now and they all run fine.
"IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT IT WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU"
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Old 03-29-2015, 06:59 PM   #84
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Hm..sounds interesting.I don't have enough experience with the tavor, but heard several positive reviews about it.
You know how steering feels different with a rear wheel drive? With the Tavor, your supporting hand hardly bears any weight, it just secures the front end for better control. The rear end is secured between your chest, your shooting hand on the grip, and your chin on the tall buttstock. Three points. Thus you can shoot a Tavor one-handed with ease. The FN bullpups have a more narrow butt stock, so your cheek does not naturally rest on it.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:14 PM   #85
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I think the above pretty well sums it up!! Most are not aware of the two primary 'causes' of the early problems with the M-16. They were:
1. Lack of proper maintenance, due to lack of knowledge and training, not to mention will full neglect.
2. Many powders used by various DOD contractors did not produce the 'proper' pressure curve for the DI system to operate at it's best. The DOD specs only stated the type of bullet to be used and the MV it was to fired at thus many of the rounds were loaded with powder which achieved the desired MV with no consideration to the pressure at the gas port!!!
I have been using the AR platform since 1968 in the military, LE, and private life. I was a unit armorer in RVN in 68 and have first hand experience with the problems and the fixes!
I have used or owned more AR's that I can even count and I have never experienced, personally, any major problems with any of them. I own both the DI and the GP ones now and they all run fine.
"IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT IT WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU"
First off Jim, thank you for your service.

Got a chuckle out of the last line, as it is something that has been drilled into my head since I first started shooting with my father. I took those words to heart, for more than just the fact that they came to me from dad. He spent close to 23 years in the Corps, and qualified as a sharpshooter early on. (Sick SOB used to pop the plugs out of his targets each time he fired after the initial shots.)

I learned maintenance from him. I clean my weapons after getting back from the range every time I go. My reasoning is this. Dad did the same, and I only once saw one of his shotguns jam, which was due to faulty ammo. Never saw a pistol or rifle we owned (including his AR, Ak, and Mini) during all the years we shot together, aside from a fresh 1911 build that we were still tuning.

It makes no difference what the weapon or piece of equipment is. If you take care of it, it will take care of you.

+1 on the causes of failure with the M 16. If I remember right there was also an issue with case swelling due to the type of powder used no liking the humidity in the jungles of "Nam as well as the other problems listed.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:42 PM   #86
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Right Kfox. But I learned that before it applied to weapons. I grew up on a farm/ranch and we learned that about our farm and ranch equipment from the get-go. If I had a penny for every pump on the handle of a grease gun I did growing up we could all retire comfortably!!!
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:15 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
I think the above pretty well sums it up!! Most are not aware of the two primary 'causes' of the early problems with the M-16. They were:
1. Lack of proper maintenance, due to lack of knowledge and training, not to mention will full neglect.
2. Many powders used by various DOD contractors did not produce the 'proper' pressure curve for the DI system to operate at it's best. The DOD specs only stated the type of bullet to be used and the MV it was to fired at thus many of the rounds were loaded with powder which achieved the desired MV with no consideration to the pressure at the gas port!!!
I have been using the AR platform since 1968 in the military, LE, and private life. I was a unit armorer in RVN in 68 and have first hand experience with the problems and the fixes!
I have used or owned more AR's that I can even count and I have never experienced, personally, any major problems with any of them. I own both the DI and the GP ones now and they all run fine.
"IF YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT IT WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU"
In addition to the chambers and bolts being non chrome lined, no maintenance equipment initially supplied, going from a 1:14 twist to a 1:12 that reduced the lethality of the M16. The Army switched from an iMR powder to a ball powder that had much higher calcium carbonate content that eventually fouled the gas tube. if the rusted chamber didn't jam the M16 the fouled gas tube just made the M16 to stop working.
There is an excellent book on the problems with the initial M16 iirc called The Black Rifle.

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Old 04-01-2015, 03:10 PM   #88
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Keep your AR clean and it will serve you well. Keep your AK clean if you feel like it. It will continue to function either way.
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Old 04-03-2015, 02:57 PM   #89
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Keep your AR clean and it will serve you well. Keep your AK clean if you feel like it. It will continue to function either way.
A good soldier keeps his/her weapon squeaky clean and properly lubed, even if he/she's a company clerk serving stateside. It's just what a soldier does!
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