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Am I the Only One?


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Old 08-11-2012, 04:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
We bow to your indisputeable logic, using luxury cars in an analogy of obsolete cartridges. But maybe you should have compared the Edsel to the Camaro.
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Originally Posted by cottontop View Post
One flaw in your statement: the cartridges I listed are NOT "obsolete," just not as common as the others. In fact, you can buy all of them, still factory loaded, in most gun shops, and some of them can even be found in some of the "marts."
The Edsel was a great car, just not marketed properly. The Camaro stayed around. Was the Edsel better? Maybe, depending on what your definition of "better" is.
sorry Hock, but i have to agree with Cottontop. he's right these are not truly obsolete cartridges, less common yes, but not obsolete. better is a subjective word, when comparing ballistics, especially when the ballistics are very similar in performance. also much of it is personal preference. just because something is more popular or more common, doesn't mean it's always better. besides, what's wrong with liking older, obscure and even obsolete cartridges and rifles?
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:22 PM   #22
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Yeah, you're right, obsolete wasn't the right word. Yet. My son will repost that for me in a few years though without fear of contradiction...

Nothing wrong with old cartridges for the advanced collector/shooter or guy who just owns one gun for a fairly specific purpose. The latter like a handed-down .32 Win Special deer-rifle in Appalachia. I assure you I have antiques chambered in rounds you've never heard of. Some barely fit in my Yugo Cottontop. But I don't favor them as shooters over their more modern and/or popular replacements except with rare exception.

I know, I know, the Russian 7.62 x 54R and Mosin Nagant rifle are the best and all you need...

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:35 PM   #23
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I'm not a reloader, but my deer rifle is a 6.5x55. Great ballistics, love that gun. I've never shot one that didn't go down after one shot. It's definitely a product of whim...very popular in Scandinavia for hunting big game, but just has never caught on in North America for some mysterious reason.

You know, you are right. For some reason no 6.5 has ever really caught on in this country. Maybe it's because we have never (at least none I can think of) had a military service round chambered in 6.5. The .260 Remington that Jim Carmichael pushed never really caught on. The .264 Winchester was over shadowed by the 7mm Rem.Mag., though it seems to be making a slight comeback. The 6.5 Rem. Mag. was DOA before it ever got started. There are several other countries that used 6.5 military rounds that are still popular in those countries. Some examples are the 6.5x54MS, 6.5x55 Swedish, 6.5 Japanese, and the 6.5 Italian Carcano. It is a curious thing. I have a nice Argentine 1909 M98 Mauser action that I had rebarreled to 6.5x55. It is a great shooter; accurate and capable of taking most anything.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Yeah, you're right, obsolete wasn't the right word. Yet. My son will repost that for me in a few years though without fear of contradiction...

Nothing wrong with old cartridges for the advanced collector/shooter or guy who just owns one gun for a fairly specific purpose. The latter like a handed-down .32 Win Special deer-rifle in Appalachia. I assure you I have antiques chambered in rounds you've never heard of. Some barely fit in my Yugo Cottontop. But I don't favor them as shooters over their more modern and/or popular replacements except with rare exception.

I know, I know, the Russian 7.62 x 54R and Mosin Nagant rifle are the best and all you need...
comparing the 32 Win. Spl. to the 30-30, ballistics wise they are so very similar and the 32 only gains about a 100-200 FPS in MV over the 30-30 with the same weight bullets. from a practical standpoint there is not any real advantage over the 30-30. and i have a 30-30 M94, but that doesn't stop me from still looking for a M94 in 32 Win. to add to my collection. most people own obscure or obsolete calibers and guns simply because the want to or possibly they inherited them from a family member. the more commonly available calibers exist, simply because they work very well. but i see no reason to limit ones self to just the most common calibers. to me they are just plain fun to shoot, and isn't that what part of the sport is, the fun of it?
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cottontop View Post
You know, you are right. For some reason no 6.5 has ever really caught on in this country. Maybe it's because we have never (at least none I can think of) had a military service round chambered in 6.5. The .260 Remington that Jim Carmichael pushed never really caught on. The .264 Winchester was over shadowed by the 7mm Rem.Mag., though it seems to be making a slight comeback. The 6.5 Rem. Mag. was DOA before it ever got started. There are several other countries that used 6.5 military rounds that are still popular in those countries. Some examples are the 6.5x54MS, 6.5x55 Swedish, 6.5 Japanese, and the 6.5 Italian Carcano. It is a curious thing. I have a nice Argentine 1909 M98 Mauser action that I had rebarreled to 6.5x55. It is a great shooter; accurate and capable of taking most anything.
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I'm sure that does have a lot to do with it. Mine is actually a Swedish Mauser imported and sporterized by Kimber...so it comes directly from that line.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:54 AM   #26
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comparing the 32 Win. Spl. to the 30-30, ballistics wise they are so very similar and the 32 only gains about a 100-200 FPS in MV over the 30-30 with the same weight bullets. from a practical standpoint there is not any real advantage over the 30-30. and i have a 30-30 M94, but that doesn't stop me from still looking for a M94 in 32 Win. to add to my collection. most people own obscure or obsolete calibers and guns simply because the want to or possibly they inherited them from a family member. the more commonly available calibers exist, simply because they work very well. but i see no reason to limit ones self to just the most common calibers. to me they are just plain fun to shoot, and isn't that what part of the sport is, the fun of it?
Axxe, what you say is appreciated ('cept saying the 100-200 fps muzzle-velocity gain being minor -- I think of the .32 Win. Special as what should be .30-30 Magnum as I think of the .30-06 Ackley Improved as the .308 Magnum) but I think you're missing the main point of the thread:

Who likes [read: prefers] the more obscure...
.222 instead of .223
.225 Win. instead of .22-250
.244 Rem. instead of .243
6.5x55 instead of .260 (or .270)
7x57 instead of 7mm/08 (or .270)
8x57 instead of .30-06
.35 Remington instead of .30-30


As for the ballistics, etc., here's an interesting read...

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm
32-win-spcl-vs-30-30.jpg  

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:22 AM   #27
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Axxe, what you say is appreciated ('cept saying the 100-200 fps muzzle-velocity gain being minor -- I think of the .32 Win. Special as what should be .30-30 Magnum as I think of the .30-06 Ackley Improved as the .308 Magnum) but I think you're missing the main point of the thread:

Who likes [read: prefers] the more obscure...
.222 instead of .223
.225 Win. instead of .22-250
.244 Rem. instead of .243
6.5x55 instead of .260 (or .270)
7x57 instead of 7mm/08 (or .270)
8x57 instead of .30-06
.35 Remington instead of .30-30


As for the ballistics, etc., here's an interesting read...

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm


Obscure, yes; obsolete, not at all.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:47 PM   #28
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I love the .30-40. My wife shoots both the .358 Winchester and 8MM-06 and has taken Moose with each of them, one shot kills. The latest one I have learned to appreciate is the .222. I never had any interest in this caliber until I found one in a pawn shop last fall at the right price. This caliber is legal to use for deer hunting in our area and I took two with it, one shot kills. I am interested in handloading for it and in the course of studying up on it, discovered that it is more or less a scaled down version of the. 30-06. I understand that the .50 BMG is more or less a scaled up .30-06. What a great family that is, Mom and Dad and the little one. Other favorites around our house are, 6MM Remington, 6.5x55, .30 Remington, .300 Savage, .32 Special, .32-20, .35 Remington, .405 Winchester, and .45-70. We also like .410 and 16 Gauge shotguns. There is something appealing about all these great calibers of yesteryear. It is a shame that it is so hard to get enough time to shoot them all, much less hunt with them, and somehow we are still always on the lookout for other neglected calibers to add to the collection!
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:46 PM   #29
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I have owned both 6MM Remington (.244) and .243. The 6MM was a Remington 700, the .243 was a Sako. Both were heavy barrels.

IME, the 6MM Remington beats out the .243 by a mile.

Longer case neck=easier to reload, more powder capacity = about 100-150 FPS gain in velocity with all bullet weights.

And, at least in my rifles, less critical of the seating depth from the ogive to the origin of the rifling. (of course, this could be the rifle, not the cartridge.)
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:50 AM   #30
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I have owned both 6MM Remington (.244) and .243. The 6MM was a Remington 700, the .243 was a Sako. Both were heavy barrels.

IME, the 6MM Remington beats out the .243 by a mile.

Longer case neck=easier to reload, more powder capacity = about 100-150 FPS gain in velocity with all bullet weights.

And, at least in my rifles, less critical of the seating depth from the ogive to the origin of the rifling. (of course, this could be the rifle, not the cartridge.)

I agree with you 100%. With all of these facts known to be true, it just proves how marketing and gun writers can sway the public opinion on a specific cartridge. And actually sound the death nell for the "better" cartridge.
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