585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - Page 2
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion >

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-13-2014, 07:12 AM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Here is picture of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
We got most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.
Others we have are the slow twist and smooth...In back some
of the cases and die sets.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated with
the easy to grip, nice pistol grip..Have Mcgowen 26 inch barrels,
1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
to .980 inch at the muzzle.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is a visual comparison of why I really like Enfields and
Rugers for big bore work. An Enfield on the left.... Lugs
built much stronger, simpler to put barrels in actions,
without the wall in the middle of front reciever. Easier
to shape breaches to feed big cases, so they don't hang up.
Left lug longer and forward, simpler to do bolt faces to hold
bigger cases...Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 01:34 PM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Here is picture of 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action.
The double stack mag for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok.
The Enfield in the Hogue stock above is done and gone.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

We also had guy show us how the case can work for a
high energy subsonic, real high energy for subsonic
1600 gr at 1050 fps. 400 ft lbs. The 585HE Whisper
Anyone with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked
cases on huge actions, can make case inserts for
using our case to fire subsonic And still fire 650gr or 750 gr
at high speeds. Can't get 14.9 Russian cases, use ours in
same gun with inserts.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion


Break action I like, we did on a CBC by mono-blocking a 585
barrel, set up especially for Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.


585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:43 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

You can see from above posts I like Enfields and here is picture
of how we set up action for long case and a singlestack magazine.
We open bottom of action for length and use a lip type magazine
insert to feed cases single stack. And lips are springy so we
can load from the top.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is the second gun I did years ago in the 585HE, an old style
Ruger 77. And at that time I used the cases I made myself and
they work great in the gun, high pressure loads, and extracted
easy like the new ones from Bertram.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is some math to show why I really like really big bores.
There is term called Average Barrel Pressure, which is the average of
all the pressures in a barrel, from the start where you have highest,
called peak pressure. to the lowest at the muzzle when bullet exits.
For high powered rifles average barrel pressure run 15-18000 psi.

There is a formula that can be used to get Average barrel pressure
fairly close if you know the muzzle energy.

We multiply ME times 12 and divide by barrel cross section x length.
We simplified it to get the 12 figure, It is inverse of the bore dia x 5
For the 585 it comes out about 10

Example a 458Win usually loaded to 5000 ft lbs, say in a 24" bbl.

ABP = ( 5000 ft lbs x 12) divided by (.17 sg in x 24") = 15,000 psi

Now you see there isn't a lot of room for big gains, as it would take
peak pressures damaging to brass and gun, to get say 50% increase.

Now example of 585HE in the 26" bbl we like, say a 7,000 ft lb load,
a real moderate load in this case. Could use 10 in place of 12,
but kept it all simple

ABP = (7000 ft lb x 12) divided by (.27 sg in x 26") = 12000 psi

The bigger bore allows for a much larger potential,
a 50% gain is easy to do.Ed
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 04:59 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Here is a few of the variety of bullets we found or know about
to use in 585HE, about a third of them, from 440gr, to 750gr,
to 1200gr, to 1600gr.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is picture of what 200gr powder, in a case that had
the powder settled, looks like.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

We now have more 585 new straight blanks giving a total of 9
basic blanks, with long ones for guys setting up target guns.
And a bunch more of the profiled barrels are being made now
to go with new ones we got left. One which went on this BBK
pictured, 3 on Enfields, one on FBW, one Ruger, 2 in PHs.
Guys have used 5 of the new slow twist barrels. Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2014, 06:37 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

There is a guy and his smith in AUS that has a reamer for the 585HE.
And maybe another firm there that can get a bunch reasonably priced
barrels imported in from the US. Our Mcgowen barrels are high quality,
hand lapped, and only half of what getting them in from other places cost.
Here is part of stuff that the guys have to work with..

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is picture of the Mossy 390 action, after I'd set up for the 585HE.
Just to see how good the action is, and I have since set barrel back
and made it into a 24ga FH. Just makes an easy to work with test gun.
Being both use same size bore, and in 24ga with 3" chamber I can use
577 brass for 24ga cases, using same Minie and jacketed as 585HE.
58CAL IN ALL FORMS is where it is at, so to speak......Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

PS-We have longer barrels now for target work including real heavy ones
of 1 5/8 inches, that some guys are working on getting bigger actions
set up to use them in. .
hubel458 is offline  
TLuker Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 05:56 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing,
in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums.
Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send
dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D.
There soon will be 3 reamers there.

And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there.
I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.

Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland...
allanswan at uplink.net.au.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for
wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their
own headstamp.Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
TLuker Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 03:40 PM   #17
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 3,536
Liked 2344 Times on 1394 Posts
Likes Given: 1278

Default

Very interesting!!! Thanks.
All of the straight wall calibers have a 1 to 1 expansion ratio so they must use the faster burning powders to get the desired performance.
__________________
An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!
JimRau is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 04:24 PM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Yes and grain for grain compared to necked cases
little better return in terms of percentage of energy out
of the amount of powder used.Ed
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 06:21 AM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have
aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of.
They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
a piece of dense foam under butt pad.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
with the bullets loaded out longer. And we have those heavy
powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield
pictured I use as one of my test guns.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us
around like a weathervane.. Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 06:53 AM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts

Default

A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.

The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
to wait for them to be made.

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion

Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed

585 HE -- Barrels of Cases -- - General Rifle Discussion
hubel458 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
.308 cases. jjfuller1 Ammunition & Reloading 12 01-07-2013 12:59 AM
gun cases savageman97 Gun Safes 13 12-09-2012 11:57 PM
trimming cases redraider Ammunition & Reloading 5 04-01-2012 06:12 PM
Short Barrels/Long Barrels,I can't make up my mind ninjatoth Revolver Handguns 9 10-23-2009 07:59 AM
Gun Cases Benelli29 Firearm Accessories & Gear 1 12-26-2007 03:57 PM



Newest Threads