Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   General Rifle Discussion (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/)
-   -   .40 caliber carbine (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/40-caliber-carbine-40489/)

jgand72 03-29-2011 11:59 PM

.40 caliber carbine
 
Hey guys. I'm looking into picking up the JR Carbine by EMF in .40 cal. I'm wondering, what is the range on a .40 round fired out of a carbine? Can it shoot accurately out to 100 yards? I'm not too familiar with any calibers other than .22, so any help/info you guys can give me would be great. Thanks.

Wambli 03-30-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgand72 (Post 475399)
Hey guys. I'm looking into picking up the JR Carbine by EMF in .40 cal. I'm wondering, what is the range on a .40 round fired out of a carbine? Can it shoot accurately out to 100 yards? I'm not too familiar with any calibers other than .22, so any help/info you guys can give me would be great. Thanks.

The answer is "maybe". There are no inherent characteristics to any handgun projectile that would make them unsuitable for 100 yards target shooting but accuracy will depend on a lot of factors, not the least of which is platform (gun) and that varies even between examples of the same gun.

That being said why are you worried about 100 yard performance? The value of pistol caliber carbines is classicaly as a CQC weapon and 100 yards is pretty much well on the outside of that envelope. I would spend more time at a 25 or MAYBE even a 50 yard range shooting off hand with that gun. Just a thought.

Lindenwood 03-30-2011 03:32 PM

Unless the gun just sucks, you will be limited more by trajectory than anything, from a field standpoint. There was a guy on the High-Point forums that would hit the 12" gong at 200 yards all day with his 4x-scoped 9mm carbine. Most report 3-5" groups at 100 yards with the various carbines, when they are actually trying (a proper supported position and typically something other than stock open sights). I used to shoot my PT92 from the prone position, resting my hands on the ground (or similarly, the benchtop), and hit the 12" gong at 100 yards. Last time I shot it, I hit a 3" clay target on the 3d or 4th shot from about 50 yards. I shoot my .44 magnum to 150 yards and consistently hit a 12" gong.

Your typical .40S&W load should be going fast enough out of the muzzle of a carbine to still get reliable expansion to probably 150 yards. This is doing a rough estimate that a round designed to expand at a MV of ~1100fps or so will still expand at 1000fps impact velocity. Figure that a carbine will add about 200fps over a 4" barrel and it won't drop below 1000fps til after or around 150 yards. With a 100yd zero, drop at 150 yards will only be about 10" which is still easy to compensate for on a silhouette (if aiming at the base of the neck, for example, it will hit about COM). At 200 yards the drop goes to a little over 2', but again aiming at the head would put rounds on target.

Now, it's not a sniper rifle, but if all you are trying to do is make holes in a zombie then even 200 yards isn't unrealistic. 100 yards should be cake, again if the gun doesn't suck and you are a decent shot (and understand the huge benefit of optics to replace the course open sights of typical Pistol-Cal carbines, as well as how to support the weapon for such shots).

jgand72 03-30-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wambli (Post 475713)
The answer is "maybe". There are no inherent characteristics to any handgun projectile that would make them unsuitable for 100 yards target shooting but accuracy will depend on a lot of factors, not the least of which is platform (gun) and that varies even between examples of the same gun.

That being said why are you worried about 100 yard performance? The value of pistol caliber carbines is classicaly as a CQC weapon and 100 yards is pretty much well on the outside of that envelope. I would spend more time at a 25 or MAYBE even a 50 yard range shooting off hand with that gun. Just a thought.

I'm not necessarily worried about the performance at 100 yards, I just really wanted to know how pistol caliber carbines perform in general, and how versatile they are. Thanks for the input though, definitely helpful.

jgand72 03-30-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lindenwood (Post 475768)
Unless the gun just sucks, you will be limited more by trajectory than anything, from a field standpoint. There was a guy on the High-Point forums that would hit the 12" gong at 200 yards all day with his 4x-scoped 9mm carbine. Most report 3-5" groups at 100 yards with the various carbines, when they are actually trying (a proper supported position and typically something other than stock open sights). I used to shoot my PT92 from the prone position, resting my hands on the ground (or similarly, the benchtop), and hit the 12" gong at 100 yards. Last time I shot it, I hit a 3" clay target on the 3d or 4th shot from about 50 yards. I shoot my .44 magnum to 150 yards and consistently hit a 12" gong.

Your typical .40S&W load should be going fast enough out of the muzzle of a carbine to still get reliable expansion to probably 150 yards. This is doing a rough estimate that a round designed to expand at a MV of ~1100fps or so will still expand at 1000fps impact velocity. Figure that a carbine will add about 200fps over a 4" barrel and it won't drop below 1000fps til after or around 150 yards. With a 100yd zero, drop at 150 yards will only be about 10" which is still easy to compensate for on a silhouette (if aiming at the base of the neck, for example, it will hit about COM). At 200 yards the drop goes to a little over 2', but again aiming at the head would put rounds on target.

Now, it's not a sniper rifle, but if all you are trying to do is make holes in a zombie then even 200 yards isn't unrealistic. 100 yards should be cake, again if the gun doesn't suck and you are a decent shot (and understand the huge benefit of optics to replace the course open sights of typical Pistol-Cal carbines, as well as how to support the weapon for such shots).

I feel like i just read a little magazine article haha. Thanks a lot, this answered pretty much all questions.

Jpyle 03-30-2011 06:04 PM

Check out Ballistics by The Inch on google. You may be surprised at the lackluster performance of pistol rounds in longer barrels. I don't have the expertise to prove why but I suspect that the faster burning powders used in handgun loads leave lots of barrel to travel after the powder is fully ignited. We recently uses a carbine to test .40 S&W rounds in another thread and the velocity from a 16" carbine equaled a 4" handgun at around 25 yds. Not saying accuracy won't improve just that the distance gain won't be all that much.

Lindenwood 03-30-2011 06:12 PM

It depends a lot on the loads. The hotter loads using proportionally-slower powders will show the most gains.

BBTI - 40 S&W

But yeah, 25-50 yards worth of velocity is about all one would expact to gain. But really the primary advantage is the increase in accuracy and controllability of a rifle, which is huge compared to an auto pistol with coarse combat sights.

Wambli 03-30-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgand72 (Post 475864)
I'm not necessarily worried about the performance at 100 yards, I just really wanted to know how pistol caliber carbines perform in general, and how versatile they are. Thanks for the input though, definitely helpful.

Oh in that case I can tell you they are a boatload of fun. I had a Ruger PC-9 that was probably one of my favorite can busters out there. 30 round mags helped a lot in that respect and also made it a rather awesome HD weapon if called upon for that role. I now have a 9mm AR which is really a pistol but performs and handles much more like a carbine. So much so that I'm considering going through the hassle of making it into a legit Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) registered with the ATF.
Sorry this picture sucks but it's the only one I have online:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...i/DSC03621.jpg

Recon 173 04-26-2014 12:14 PM

Different firearms are designed to do different things. I would suspect that a .40 caliber carbine would be designed to give a shooter close range striking power and punch at the same time. Such a firearm would be more useful against a light vehicle than used in like an urban warfare setting or other general combat setting. With the .40 caliber round you would have a bigger bore projectile and plenty of power to punch through material to get to the target you want to hit. It would not have the punch of say a 10 millimeter pistol cartridge but it still wouldn't be a slouch either. It would hit the median between a 9 mm and a 10 mm carbine for most tactical work.

A pistol caliber carbine is not a bad choice for a personal defense firearm but I think that I would prefer using a compact rifle of some sort like an M-4 carbine instead of a PCC. The difference is that I would have a longer reach with the rifle round if I should ever need to use that reach for some reason. I like the PCCs but a compact rifle carbine weighs about the same, lets me carry the same amount of ammo and lets me have more working range in a tight situation. With a tactical scope and by choosing the right caliber for my rifle caliber carbine, I can come up with a firearm that is just as effective, if not more so, than any PCC.

JTJ 04-26-2014 02:06 PM

You will gain 100-150 fps in the longer barrel. The semi auto cartridges are pretty efficient and designed for shorter barrels. Stay with the heavier weights so you stay at sub sonic velocities. Going from sonic to sub sonic will cause turbulence and affect accuracy. Treat it the same as a 22lr as far as range goes. It will have considerably more power than a 22lr.


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:41 AM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.