.308 vs .30-06
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:23 PM   #1
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Default .308 vs .30-06

Okay i know there very similar and hard to compare but....I'v decided i want to get the Remington Model 700 SPS. The thing i can't decide is which round i want to be firing from it. Im going to be hand-loading the ammo. Its mainly for target shooting but also for using in case of bear attack. Black usually. Probably not a grizzly. I'v fired the .308 and liked it but never fired a .30-06. Recoil isn't that much of a problem for me. (How much more does a .30-06 kick?) Ammo is usually cheaper for a .308 but ill be hand-loading so it doesn't really matter. Im more leaning towards the .308 because its quieter, shorter bolt stroke, Less recoil, cheaper factory ammo. Plus I'm sure it will punch a hole in a bear fairly easily. But i don't know a lot about the .30-06 so I've got a bit of a biased decision. Can someone offer a bit of advice towards the two?

thank you

-Braeden

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Old 07-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #2
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.308s can be loaded to velocities nearing that of a .30-06 using the same bullet. The only real difference for a real world shooter would then be the stroke of the bolt. The .30-06 doesn't really have that much more recoil than .308 Win when modern high velocity loads are used.

Just to add to your confusion though, you might want to see if you can get it chambered in .300 WSSM or .300 WSM if bolt stroke is an issue for you. Again, the difference in recoil would be negligible.

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Old 07-09-2008, 07:10 PM   #3
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*biting tongue - clicking back*

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't help it.... There is no comparison between the two in my mind. Go with the .06, and this from a guy who built a .308 sniper rig that you can read all about in the Projects section.

As for the action - That is where I am biting my tongue....

This was published and met with some argument. So, I will let you decide....

JD

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Last edited by Dillinger; 07-09-2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: I couldn't help it. :-)
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:11 PM   #4
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Can you guys even have 700s in Canadia?

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Old 07-09-2008, 08:14 PM   #5
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christ i hope so. Why would we not be able to?

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Old 07-09-2008, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
*biting tongue - clicking back*

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't help it.... There is no comparison between the two in my mind. Go with the .06, and this from a guy who built a .308 sniper rig that you can read all about in the Projects section.

As for the action - That is where I am biting my tongue....

This was published and met with some argument. So, I will let you decide....

JD

well im really glad you pointed this out. Is there another rifle in .30-06 or .308. whichever. That you would suggest as a good "sniping" rifle but is still fairly lightweight.So that i can kind of compare. and make a more informed decision(My dad had a nice .338 but its still a bit to big for me to shoot. I liked it, i just dont know who made it. And i cant find it out either.)
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:39 PM   #7
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There are tons of rifles out there brother - tons of actions, tons of customs, tons of factory guns. The market is wide open in the bolt gun world.

I work in a shop that builds custom boltguns. I work there as an apprentice, part time, but mostly because I get discounts on everything and I get to talk guns all day with the Master 'Smith. I could care less about the take home pay, it all goes back into the shop account anyways.

Brett, my 'smith, took a look at the new Remington Action that is being submitted to the military for their new .338 Lapua long range sniping trials - I posted a review about it earlier. THAT action is apparently the one to buy of all the modern Remington actions if you really want a Remington. It's not available yet, but it will be soon and it is awesome.

If you are talking "sniping" you are talking a different rifle all together than a hunting or target shooting rifle. Here's a few reasons why.

Hunting rifles traditionally have thinner barrels, and the weapon is lighter, so that you can hump it day after day. With a hunting rifle, MOA ( Minute of Angle - meaning a 1" group at exactly 100 yards / 2" group at 200 yards / and so on ) is something that is MORE than enough to bring down game. You don't need 1/4 MOA to hit a deer, or a bear, in the "Golden Triangle" to end a threat.

Sniper Rifles are designed for one purpose. To end a threat, at distance, with the utmost accuracy and lethality. My sniper rig shoots consistant 1/2" MOA - and it will shoot 1/4" on a good day, with good conditions, when the trigger man hasn't had too much soda and isn't stressed out about what he is doing. A weapon that shoots 1 MOA is considered average, and might not be enough to qualify for some departments. For example, the new military contract ( referenced above for the .338 Lapua ) has to have a MINIMUM of 1/2 MOA out to 1,000 yards with three shots. That is a 5" group at 1,000 to qualify. Now we are talking supreme accuracy, but there is another category of shooters that take it whole 'nother level...

Benchrest Rifles, and the men behind them, are the mad scientists of the world of shooting. Anything you see on the market today, to make you shoot better, like a bubble level that goes on your scope to reduce cant in your hold, was developed moons ago by the old guys who show up every weekend and put round after round downrange seeking the ultimate target. Benchrest guns shoot, on average, better than 1/2 moa. A world record at 1,000 yards used to be 4.2 inches with a 10 shot group! I don't know if that still stands, but it was the record at one time. Now that is some good shooting!

So, the level of rifle, the level of accuracy and the level of commitment are based on what you are trying to do.

Don't build a hunting rifle if you want a sniper rig. Don't build a sniper rig if you want to take it hunting. You need to purpose build a weapon for what you are intended to do with it.

Sniping - Plinking - Hunting are all different categories. So I ask you, what are you trying to accomplish REALLY? Deep down, what would you like this rifle to be able to do in your hands?

JD

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Old 07-09-2008, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
There are tons of rifles out there brother - tons of actions, tons of customs, tons of factory guns. The market is wide open in the bolt gun world.

I work in a shop that builds custom boltguns. I work there as an apprentice, part time, but mostly because I get discounts on everything and I get to talk guns all day with the Master 'Smith. I could care less about the take home pay, it all goes back into the shop account anyways.

Brett, my 'smith, took a look at the new Remington Action that is being submitted to the military for their new .338 Lapua long range sniping trials - I posted a review about it earlier. THAT action is apparently the one to buy of all the modern Remington actions if you really want a Remington. It's not available yet, but it will be soon and it is awesome.

If you are talking "sniping" you are talking a different rifle all together than a hunting or target shooting rifle. Here's a few reasons why.

Hunting rifles traditionally have thinner barrels, and the weapon is lighter, so that you can hump it day after day. With a hunting rifle, MOA ( Minute of Angle - meaning a 1" group at exactly 100 yards / 2" group at 200 yards / and so on ) is something that is MORE than enough to bring down game. You don't need 1/4 MOA to hit a deer, or a bear, in the "Golden Triangle" to end a threat.

Sniper Rifles are designed for one purpose. To end a threat, at distance, with the utmost accuracy and lethality. My sniper rig shoots consistant 1/2" MOA - and it will shoot 1/4" on a good day, with good conditions, when the trigger man hasn't had too much soda and isn't stressed out about what he is doing. A weapon that shoots 1 MOA is considered average, and might not be enough to qualify for some departments. For example, the new military contract ( referenced above for the .338 Lapua ) has to have a MINIMUM of 1/2 MOA out to 1,000 yards with three shots. That is a 5" group at 1,000 to qualify. Now we are talking supreme accuracy, but there is another category of shooters that take it whole 'nother level...

Benchrest Rifles, and the men behind them, are the mad scientists of the world of shooting. Anything you see on the market today, to make you shoot better, like a bubble level that goes on your scope to reduce cant in your hold, was developed moons ago by the old guys who show up every weekend and put round after round downrange seeking the ultimate target. Benchrest guns shoot, on average, better than 1/2 moa. A world record at 1,000 yards used to be 4.2 inches with a 10 shot group! I don't know if that still stands, but it was the record at one time. Now that is some good shooting!

So, the level of rifle, the level of accuracy and the level of commitment are based on what you are trying to do.

Don't build a hunting rifle if you want a sniper rig. Don't build a sniper rig if you want to take it hunting. You need to purpose build a weapon for what you are intended to do with it.

Sniping - Plinking - Hunting are all different categories. So I ask you, what are you trying to accomplish REALLY? Deep down, what would you like this rifle to be able to do in your hands?

JD
deep down i would like it to snipe. that is my attempt for a career choice after im done school, and would love to start on targets now. but i dont want a rifle that i have to lug around everywhere. id like something to bring camping that will stash in my tent. That i wont get a sore back carrying it for a few hours. The last few points pull it out of the sniper rifle category i think?

thanks
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:56 PM   #9
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Agreed. Okay, first, some real facts for you take in.

1) Snipers are trained to shoot the .308 ( 7.62 x 51mm NATO ) rifle cartridge. It is the most commonly used rifle cartridge in the US for these applications, and other countries, so buying a rifle that shoots a different cartridge, if that is what you REALLY want to do, would be a mistake.

2) The .308 Rifle cartridge is not the best choice for this application. It is the most popular. There is a big difference.

3) The .308 Rifle cartridge is not a "starter weapon". If you have a bolt gun background, then it's a normal progression. If you are just starting, I would recommend getting a bolt action .22lr plinker to shoot THOUSANDS of rounds through until you know EXACTLY where that round is going. It won't cost you an arm and a leg and it will be great for training.

4) Sniping as an MOS is a VERY select skillset. It is not something that everyone who shoots a rifle well can do. If you REALLY want to pursue this, there are some books you need to read.

Marine Sniper: 93 Kills
Ultimate Sniper - By John Plaster
Sniper / Sniper II - Lonsdale
Death from Afar series - Brigade Armory

Those will tell you FAR more than the movies ever could, and give you chilling glimpse into what goes into making this a discipline...

JD

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Old 07-09-2008, 09:07 PM   #10
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What makes you think you're qualified as a sniper and who do you plan on sniping for?

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