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-   -   A .308 Class Round at 1000 Yards Is Like a .22LR at __ Yards? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/308-class-round-1000-yards-like-22lr-__-yards-45343/)

Joshua M. Smith 07-17-2011 08:11 AM

A .308 Class Round at 1000 Yards Is Like a .22LR at __ Yards?
 
Hello,

I do not own a precision 'scoped .308 yet. Around here, open sights work better for anything above varmint rounds.

I can do all the math I want, but it doesn't translate into the real world well from what I can tell.

So, if you were going to try to compare apples to oranges, how would you complete the sentence, "Shooting a .308 heavy barreled precision rifle at 1000 yards is like shooting a precision .22LR at _?_ yards"?

Further comparing, how would you complete the sentence, "Hitting a man-sized torso target at 1000 yards with a .308 heavy barreled precision rifle is like hitting a squirrel in the heart/lungs with a precision .22 LR at _?_ yards"?

While not directly comparable, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks!

Josh

c3shooter 07-17-2011 09:53 AM

Well, more like comparing apples to asparagus, BUT.....

The 1000 meter shot is going to require several things- the ability read read wind, mirage, range, and motion. Wind can not only move the bullet laterally a LOT at that range (about 54 inches for a 5 mph crosswind), but how does a headwind or following wind affect flight time? Mirage- you are shooting at where the target ain't. Range- at extreme ranges, the parabola starts to resemble a rainbow- you are holding well- and I mean WELL- above the target. Motion- is your target asleep? Stuck knee deep in mud? Flight time is about 1.7 seconds. You need to shoot at where target WILL be. Also- at 1000 meters, MOST .308 is verging on dropping back thru the sound barrier- instability when that happens.


Those are factors that just don't apply (that much) to the squirrel and .22 equation. Purely in terms of relative difficulty, MAYE a kill shot on a squirrel at 200 yards. MAYBE. Some of the F class shooters will be along in a bit, and give you a more educated answer. But a good question.

Yunus 07-17-2011 12:41 PM

I would say they are not comparable because the variables involved are very different. The .22LR round is going to be the failure in the system before the other equipment (Scope/Rifle) is pushed past it's limit. Where as the 1,000 yard round is quite capable of 1,000 yard hits reliably with the right equipment.

Gatekeeper 07-17-2011 01:37 PM

I had always heard that the time of flight, wind drift, and drop of a .22LR at 200yards is very similar to 308 @1000.
I don't know if true, but it certainly is challenging and is a lot of fun:)

M14sRock 07-17-2011 06:13 PM

.308Win goes subsonic at around 800, give or take, depending on the bullet used. It will get to 1,000 but is not a good choice for 1,000.

A good .308Win will make for a wonderful 600 yard rifle, and a passable 800 yard rifle, but the energy bleed allows for lots of environmental influence that applies less to, say, one of the .300 mags.

Equal to the performance drop of a good .22lr round at 150-200? Seems about right.

therewolf 07-18-2011 01:12 AM

I don't know, I keep hearing about "1000 yards" this, and "800 yards"

that.

Anybody shot MOA at 100 yards? 200 yards?

Can you even SEE a standard target at 1000 yards

with your naked eye?

I'll be danged if I could hit a barn at 1000 yards.

I'm still working on accuracy at 50 and 100 yards.

c3shooter 07-18-2011 01:23 AM

Well, I have at least a couple of .22 LR rifles that will hold 1 MOA at 100 yards if I do my part, and have met MUCH better shooters than I am. Have a .17 HMR that will shoot about 1/3 of 1 MOA at 100.

If I am hitting a 10 inch target at 1000 yards, that is ABOUT 1 MOA. Yes, have done that- not with every round. When Carlos Hathcock won the Camp Peary championship, he fired a perfect 10 at 1000 yards. And the older gent who is the resident gunsmith at our range, and builds long range rifles for a living- I would NOT let him shoot at me at 1000- wind and mirage be damned! Have seen too many of his targets! :eek:

CHLChris 07-18-2011 01:53 AM

therewolf, your honesty is refreshing. I was out shooting my AR with a new 4x scope. The 4" circle at 200 yards totally disappeared behind my reticle's 1MOA dot. Not to mention my movement made me time a shot for that natural pause. A 1000 yard target would just disappear in all but, what, 50x scopes?

M14sRock 07-18-2011 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therewolf (Post 544134)
I don't know, I keep hearing about "1000 yards" this, and "800 yards"

that.

Anybody shot MOA at 100 yards? 200 yards?

Can you even SEE a standard target at 1000 yards

with your naked eye?

I'll be danged if I could hit a barn at 1000 yards.

I'm still working on accuracy at 50 and 100 yards.

I shoot 1,000 yards with a .308 pretty regularly. I've used it out to 1,200, but frankly it sucks at 1,200. .300 Win Mag is the way to go after 800.

My rifle shoots 5/8 MOA for 5 shot groups with Black Hills Match. I don't bother to load for my M14s.

Rifle is an LRB M25 in a JAE Gen2 stock with an IOR scope.

Target at 1,000 yards is a steel plate roughly 13"x13".

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...k/PB270313.jpg
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...k/PB270309.jpg
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...k/PB270306.jpg
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...k/DSC02865.jpg

So I'm well aware of the limitations of the .308 Win, as well as the capabilities.

And I have .22s that will easily do MOA.

therewolf 07-18-2011 03:54 AM

That's cool, M14sRock.

I don't know, OP, you'll have to find out for yourself what the outer limits

on 22LR are. I'm sure you could push it to 150-200 yards,easy.

I'm still working on a MOA at 100 yards. It's fun.


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