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Old 09-22-2013, 10:39 AM   #11
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Mountainman, you are going to turn into a .338 lapua.
Lol. That'd be cheaper than buying one.
Bears are scary.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:59 AM   #12
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Here is where thoughts differ. Here in the U.S. we always think further is better. OK for punching paper. When in the wild, most encounters happen at 50 yards or less. You don't need a scope for that. A high powered scope will make it impossible to get a sight picture to take down dangerous game at close distance. Forget the .338 Lapua. If a Grizzly is on your trail, you are the prey. You are on their turf. Bears do stalk their prey, if you have ever experienced it, it is quite un-nerving. You need to be able to take a quick follow up shot also. The .45-70 was a Military round at 1st. The .45-90 or .45-110 were used by hunters.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #13
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I guess if you had to use a 30/30 for grizzlies , the Buffalo bore round would be the one to use. In the mountains just south of where I live, where I hunt ,there are grizzlies. The chances of an encounter are slim, most people are carrying whatever they use for elk. A 30/06, .300 Win. Mag, 35 Whelen, etc. Those that are camping or horse back riding outside of hunting season usually have a .44 magnum at minimum, if they are smart they have a 12Ga. w/ slugs. If I were to go after grizzly, a Marlin .45-70 or .338 Mag would do the job.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #14
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I hear a lot of talk about bears and protection from bears on this forum. What I want to know is how many people get bear mauled every year? I am not familiar with the critters because there just aren't many of them here and the ones that are here are the black bears that are not aggressive unless they are with cubs or provoked.

In the woods where I am, the danger is snakes, and they will succumb to what ever round I happen to be carrying. The other danger is yellow jackets. When those buggers are riled the only protection is a strategic withdrawal with all haste, abandoning your firearm with them if it slows you down. I have never know a man brave enough to give unarmored battle to a nest of stirred up yellow jackets.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #15
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I'm not going to look up the numbers on the 45-70 but I've shot both light and hot loads and there is no doubt it'll drop anything on this continent. It was designed for bison, wasn't it?

If it were me, and I had a choice, I'd use .338 lapua and I'd be a long way away from the grizzly.
I agree!!!! If it was all I had I guess I would carry the 30-30 and hope like hell I didn't see one but if I had my choice give me something in .338 or bigger.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #16
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What's the muzzle energy of a 45-70 out of a guide gun Jon m? Been curious to know...if youddon't mind sharing...
I run a hardcast 405grain at about 2000 fps. Thats enough weight and energy to take down anything in africa and has been used for one shot stops on rhinocerous in africa by folks who go there. Thats about 3600 ftlbs energy.

Heavy bullets retain most of their energy as it goes through hide muscle bone doing massive damage to the internals. Lighter bullets expend most of their energy in non-critical muscle bone hide.

While almost any round out of a rifle will do fine on a non-angry grizzly taken from the side while its walking past a hunting hide they are a whole different animal head on with a pissed off attitude.

This past august while bbqing in new hampshire about 3am there was a bear trying to get in the bbq pit. I had my 45-70 yelled at the bear to scoot. Fortunately it did. It was a black bear prolly in the 350-400 pound range. Bigger than me. I wouldnt have felt armed enough with a 44 or 30-30... talking about em, seeing em in zoos, IS NOT the same as seeing one in real life with nothing tween you and it but air.

Most bear encounters end up the way mine did. Simply Relying on human presence that a bear will run from you if you yell or spray it with pepper sauce is the same level of stupidity as relying on a gun free zone sign to stop robbers rapists and mass murderers.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:36 PM   #17
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I hear a lot of talk about bears and protection from bears on this forum. What I want to know is how many people get bear mauled every year? I am not familiar with the critters because there just aren't many of them here and the ones that are here are the black bears that are not aggressive unless they are with cubs or provoked.

In the woods where I am, the danger is snakes, and they will succumb to what ever round I happen to be carrying. The other danger is yellow jackets. When those buggers are riled the only protection is a strategic withdrawal with all haste, abandoning your firearm with them if it slows you down. I have never know a man brave enough to give unarmored battle to a nest of stirred up yellow jackets.
Talking about bears is fun. Its the most dangerous creature we have in the americas.

You cant run from bears. They can maintain 25+ miles per hour for several hours. They run down deer moose horses cows etc. Not even the most well conditioned athelete can even out sprint a bear. You can move away from bees wasps etc but you cant run from a bear. You cant hide from a bear climbing a tree doesnt help either as bears can climb any tree you can and most you cant. If your in a house bears have been knownnto rip solid oak doors to get in. They have peeled people out of cars as well.

Thats why its fun to talk bears
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #18
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johnM, you were in the 25th Div. ? My Dad was in the 25th, stationed at Schofield barracks on Oahu when the Japs attacked. He was in combat in the Pacific from then until after the end of the war, taking part in the invasion of Guadalcanal, New Georgia and the Phillipines and several smaller islands. He fought also in Korea, and right before he retired, in Vietnam, but was in other units by then.
Every year several people are mauled in Yellowstone and Glacier Parks, usually not fatal attacks. There the bears are accustomed to humans not being armed and are a little bolder than bears that live outside the parks. The ones on national forest land are more apt to flee when the see someone, as they know they stand a good chance of being shot. I was charged by a grizzly, barely an adult but still enough to make my knees knock. I was bow hunting just outside the northwest corner of Yellowstone, had shot a bull elk, but hit him back by the liver as he had taken a step right when I shot. I had to track him about a mile, but it had got dark before I found him, so I resumed the search the next morning. I got close to where I thought I had left off the previous evening, and saw a grizzly crossing a game trail about a hundred yards above me. I unholstered my S&W 629, just as he looked down and saw me. He came down the hill and was almost on me in a few seconds. He had jumped over a couple of logs that were across the trail and were chest high, and when he landed in piles of leaves after jumping over them I still remember how quiet he was, not a sound. I had been yelling at him and was trying to hold on his head with the .44, and knew that anything but a brain or spine shot would just piss him off. After he cleared the last log and I had only a few ounces of pull left on the trigger, his eyes got big and he skidded to a stop, spun around and ran back up the hill as fast as he had come down. After regaining my composure, I went up the hill to where he was crossing the trail, found the blood trail from the elk and another 50 yards into the woods was where my elk lay. I think the bear knew he was almost on to a meal, and when he saw me, at first maybe thought I was a black bear that was gonna steal his meal. When he got close enough to see it was a person pointing a gun, he took off. When I met my wife, she had been working at big city emergency rooms for years as an E.R. nurse, and had seen a lot of messed up people brought in. She signed up for life flight duty when we lived outside of Glacier park. One of her first assignments was to retrieve the body of a hiker that had been killed by a grizzly, his stomach and one thigh had been eaten. As much as she was accustomed to trauma, that was a bit much for even her. We moved to Seattle after that, and she had just signed up for the life flight helicopter when it went down with the crew just off the downtown skyline in 800 feet of water. It took the Navy almost a year to recover the remains. That ended her desire to be on the helicopter.

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Old 09-22-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Talking about bears is fun. Its the most dangerous creature we have in the americas.

You cant run from bears. They can maintain 25+ miles per hour for several hours. They run down deer moose horses cows etc. Not even the most well conditioned athelete can even out sprint a bear. You can move away from bees wasps etc but you cant run from a bear. You cant hide from a bear climbing a tree doesnt help either as bears can climb any tree you can and most you cant. If your in a house bears have been knownnto rip solid oak doors to get in. They have peeled people out of cars as well.

Thats why its fun to talk bears
JonM, you are very close!

I'd rate bears the 2nd most dangerous animal in the Americas. The most dangerous is our species.

Ours is the species we discuss protecting ourselves against the most, as it should be!
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:32 PM   #20
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30-30 NO!= Possible Bear Food on the sole!

Bear round = 300 or 338 Win Mags.

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