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Old 01-07-2013, 10:27 PM   #71
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So after it's reamed out you fire the rounds to expand the brass to the new size and then hand load them hotter than factory specs in a thinner chamber? Sounds dangerous lol
No it is not. AI chamber have a different shoulder angle, they do no change the cartridge diameter or chamber thickness. By changing the angle of the shoulder, there is the potential of more case capacity. That optimizes velocity.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:06 PM   #72
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I will condense my statement I said "It's hard to find deer you have shot a long distance away. I backed my statement by sharing my experience in the soybean field. I dropped the deer on the spot and it took us an hour to find it. Once you take your eyes off a spot where the deer fell they can be hard to find, especially when everything looks the same. That field was at least 100 acres of brown. I don't care who took the shot they could not have done it better. We likely walked within 10 yards of the deer a dozen times before we found it.

If you can't appreciate this situation I would advise you to get some hunting experience before commenting.
shooting a deer and having to look for it, where it dropped is one thing. my remarks about shooting at such a long distance as to only wound the deer and it running off was my point in the manner. i also stand by my comments as i wrote them.

just because i don't hunt anymore, don't assume that i never have. i have spent many a cold morning sitting in deer stands many years ago. i have had many years of hunting in the past. don't make assumptions about people when you don't know them.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:16 AM   #73
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Is there factory ammo for an AI 06? thanks for the info btw guys.

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Old 01-08-2013, 06:43 AM   #74
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Is there factory ammo for an AI 06? thanks for the info btw guys.
No, but all's you do is buy standard 30/06 ammo and fire it in the rifle and it fire forms out the chamber size and thats one of the advantages of an Improved chamber plus longer case life.
Most 30/06 AI's have a 40 degree angle on the shoulder which is the common angle.
When you fireform the standard 30/06 case which has a bit of a tapered case blows out to a straight walled case with a sharper angled 40 degree'd shoulder.
Case capacity over the standard case increases by a couple of grains.
An example is my 30/06 AI in which I use a 165gn GameKing with 61.5gns of AR2209 and maximum is 61.5gns(2960 - 3000fps) but in my action(M98) theres no pressure signs and it's accurate but in a standard 30/06 maximum load is 59gns but it's only about 100fps slower but where you gain is in longer case life.

Using 150gn projectiles makes it run a bit harder and I've used these in my rifle with good results on pigs and goats.
With the 165gn pills I've shot feral horses,donkeys,wild dogs,pigs,and goats and none have survived the 1 shot experience.

The other advantage is that you can load from 110gns upto 220 gn projectiles making it a very versatile round and reloading the 30/06AI really brings out the best in it and you can get dies to suit.

I also FLS every case every time I fire one,regards
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:19 AM   #75
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Well I won't start by drilling you with another speech about ethics, but I believe you know by now that making shots way out there isn't something you just start doing. It takes a lot of time, money and most importantly,PRACTICE at various ranges! That said I would tell you that any of the three you mentioned are up to the task. I own all three and they are all capable of what you ask. Something else to consider is how sensitive to recoil you are. The 300 magnums all carry a substantial amount of recoil, much different than the 308 or 06. Good luck in whatever you choose and get our there and shoot it as much as you can.

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Old 01-09-2013, 06:39 AM   #76
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To kick the new year off I killed a coyote that was several hundred yards away. The distance was not important as it was also insignificant. I called her in to a realistic range for the equipment I was using on this hunt and with one well placed shot put her to sleep instantly. Head shot at 109 yards with a very accurate savage rifle in .17HMR with 6x22x44 optics. And a 20gr. Bullet. The kill zones on a Yote are very small and this said it is only right to know your equipment, it's limitations, your own ability as a marksman and practice as much as possible. That was an off hand shot only because I didn't have a good rest and I would have never considered taking it if I haven't taken the time to make the same shot on paper and several boxes of ammo. Practice shooting become a hunter. Sure you could gut shoot or fatally wound a coyote or other big game animal 500 yards out or further and eventually it will die but as a hunter you owe it to the animal to make as quick and humane kill as possible. Even a lowly coyote. I can with 1000% confidence make ethical kill shots on game out to 600 yards. I have the equipment to do just that and hit steel at over 1000 yards but my sweet spot at game killing ethical range is 300 yards or less. These shows on TV showing long range ( hunting ) scare the **** out of me and others that know what it actually takes to consistently make shots at great distances. With us today folks we have our guest ( hunter ) Tommy Trigger Finger and he is going to shoot this goat up on the side of this mountain 780 yards out with a rifle he's never shot until now chambered in 7mmSTW. I guarantee if they gave old Tommy that rifle and a box of 20 rounds and they didn't dope the whole seen out for him he couldn't hit that goat with all 20 rounds. I'd bet his gun, his truck, his house and his girl on it. He could keep his girl if she was ugly. Long range shooting is a great sport, long range shooting on game is not so great. The magazines you read and especially the shows you see concerning the topic miss represent what it truly takes to accomplish. By all means try it on paper before you try it on game, research and read all you can. Take classes and Learn from experienced marksman. You will find that it will challenge you to the extreme and you will spend a fortune on rifles, optics and reloading equipment the average hunter/reloaded never knew existed. You will use math we all never paid mind to in school but you will love it or hate it, it's not as easy as it seems on TV. What they don't show is the poorly shot animal they let wonder off, curl up and expire some time later in hopes to find it later because some one like old Tommy who never shot the gun until then made a bad shot. I admit the longest kill on large game was a buck across a canyon at 526 yards down hill slightly in 12-15 mph cross winds with a 300WM and a 180gr. pill. Sounds simple but not so. Your average shooter can't do it with a box of shells. I only committed to that shot because the buck had a bullet wound in the left rear quarter from a poor shot. I found him on the opposite slope bedded behind a stump which made the shot more difficult. This was the only time I have shot game at a range past 300 especially in those conditions. Did my math, ya fun right, distance, altitude, temperature, relative humidity, down hill angle, wind speed, wind direction, ballistic coefficient and true velocity of my hand loads from chronograph data collected from my home shooting range out of a precision sub MOA 300 mag. Chambered a round ( I don't hunt with a chambered gun ) squeezed the -4 lb trigger and the real work began. I knew exactly where my bullet was going and it did. EXACTLY ! One shot one kill. Ethically. But if that buck wasn't wounded I would of passed on it. Most of the sevens or thirty cal. offerings are good on paper from proper equipment but weather they harbor effective energy to kill at great distance need to be known. For instance the .308 win is a great cartridge capable of 1000 yard competition but does not have the legs to effectively kill big game at long range. I could write a book on all of this but if you are wanting to shoot at long range and hopefully on steel or paper start with a sub MOA gun of quality. Learn proper reloading for accuracy spend a minimum of 600 on optics that hold a zero from various turret clicks and depending on the range you want to shoot you may even need a scope base milled for a certain degrees of angle to fully take advantage of bullet drop adjustment and PRACTICE ! Further note most light weight guns with a tapered barrel will most Likely produce barrel walk after the third shot and not hold sub MOA groups. If you want a gun that shoots tight groups out of the box better than most 900-1300 $ rigs go with savage or believe it or not howa. Starting to see more and more of those turn up and compete against high dollar rigs. Look at a any of the long distance shooting sites. And for all you Ackley guys the .280 Ackley is probably the most efficient and greatest of them all. I'm a .30 fan but have several sevens and the .280 AI is on the heels of big greens 7mag with less pressure less powder and felt recoil has better case life reduced throat erosion with superb accuracy potential.

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:16 PM   #77
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Excellent post Baddad4570 ! I have will have to look into the .280 AI - if it's close that close to my 7mm WM. There are several schools that teach LR shooting from a variety of field conditions. Knowing the ballistics ( & the math we all ignored in HS) is a given but the really hard part is doping the wind. Longer the shot, the more critical this information is.

Very hard to learn how to read the wind from book or even a range session or two. The school I was reading about was staffed by X Seal snipers who were exceedingly good at reading range conditions. The avg distance a student can hit was 600 yds. I suppose good instruction can shorten the learning curve but there is no substitute for fundamental marksmanship.

The debate: in a field environment do you use your scope to hold over or dial in your scope adj n shoot normally. (straight on). Leopold makes special scope caps for LR calibers for this purpose.

Note: I'm talking about LR target shooting only.

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Old 01-09-2013, 04:27 PM   #78
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shooting a deer and having to look for it, where it dropped is one thing. my remarks about shooting at such a long distance as to only wound the deer and it running off was my point in the manner. i also stand by my comments as i wrote them.

just because i don't hunt anymore, don't assume that i never have. i have spent many a cold morning sitting in deer stands many years ago. i have had many years of hunting in the past. don't make assumptions about people when you don't know them.
You should be kind enough to give me the same consideration. As for my statements I am not backing down an inch. I am still assuming....
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:26 AM   #79
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Excellent post Baddad4570 ! I have will have to look into the .280 AI - if it's close that close to my 7mm WM. There are several schools that teach LR shooting from a variety of field conditions. Knowing the ballistics ( & the math we all ignored in HS) is a given but the really hard part is doping the wind. Longer the shot, the more critical this information is.

Very hard to learn how to read the wind from book or even a range session or two. The school I was reading about was staffed by X Seal snipers who were exceedingly good at reading range conditions. The avg distance a student can hit was 600 yds. I suppose good instruction can shorten the learning curve but there is no substitute for fundamental marksmanship.

The debate: in a field environment do you use your scope to hold over or dial in your scope adj n shoot normally. (straight on). Leopold makes special scope caps for LR calibers for this purpose.

Note: I'm talking about LR target shooting only.
I couldn't agree with you more. Reading wind is the most difficult subject for setting up a shot string. If you ever have a little time to piddle away try this experiment. Place two foot high markers about 50 yards apart all the way out to 600-800 yards with 12-14 inch long light weight ribbons tied to the tops, sit back with good glass and watch the winds effect on each ribbon all the way out to the last marker. You will learn quite a bit from this. I use a Caldwell wind meter to check wind speed. This only gives you a good idea of what's happening right in front of you and not way out there. To answer your question about my choice between plex reticles or ballistic turrets on targets I prefer turrets and high magnification. For hunting I use rifles in fast flat calibers and I have plain old cross hairs, plex reticles and scopes with target turrets. Since I limit shots on game to 300 yards for me in reality plex reticles and target turrets are pointless. I sight in for zero at 200-300 yards. Because of this really all that is needed are simple cross hairs. My bullet path will be 2.5-3.0 inches high or low from zero depending on what gun I'm using all the way to 300 yards. So there it no need to have to compensate for much. I like scopes in the 12-14 magnification for big game hunting because the vitals and kill zones are large enough on Elk, Deer and Bear to make good shots using this tactic. For varmint I like magnification in 18-22. This allows greater accuracy on smaller kill zones. One of my favorite Deer rigs is a .300WSM with a 150gr. Barns and a Nikon Monarch scope in 3.3x14x50 and plex reticle. It might as well have plain old cross hairs.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:35 PM   #80
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Man what a long thread on such a "simple" question--lol. OK-starting another on what to re barrel my '03 with.

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