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Old 10-07-2013, 01:03 AM   #31
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The common misconception in rifle shooting is longer = more accurate stiffer does = accuracy hence the bull barrel. Out of the vast majority of cartridges the minimal gain in speed vs the stiffer shorter barrels inherent accuracy is well worth the trade off. It has everything to do with barrel harmonics. Two barrels that are the exact same but in length the shorter barrel will be more accurate (within reason) .

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Old 10-07-2013, 01:12 AM   #32
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The common misconception in rifle shooting is longer = more accurate stiffer does = accuracy hence the bull barrel. Out of the vast majority of cartridges the minimal gain in speed vs the stiffer shorter barrels inherent accuracy is well worth the trade off. It has everything to do with barrel harmonics. Two barrels that are the exact same but in length the shorter barrel will be more accurate (within reason) .
another reason heavier barrels can be more accurate is that you can shoot more rounds before the barrel gets too hot. heat in a barrel will throw off accuracy.

but shot for shot, a typical sporter barrel and a heavy barrel of the dame lengths, should shoot about the same. as long a you give the sporter barrel enough cool down between shots.

a longer and heavier barrel will also have less barrel harmonics than a sporter barrel of the same length. the heat of the barrel will play with barrel harmonics. so with a haevier barrel, you can shoot more rounds before it becomes as much an issue as it does in sporter barrel of the same length.

fluting can help shave off a little weight to offset the heavier barrel as well as helping with cooling the barrel down to a degree.

with barrel length, you need to match it to the cartridge you are shooting. some cartridges like longer barrels for a more complete burning of the powder. but sometimes for hunting purposes, shorter barrels are lighter and easier to manuever with in the field. everything is a trade-off though.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:54 AM   #33
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You don't need a Bench rifle for hunting. You need a functional firearm of adequate energy to cleanly take your intended prey. Hunting with rifles that have minimal head space and target barrels is a give away. The owner is an inexperienced hunter. Watch him closely.

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Old 10-07-2013, 02:08 AM   #34
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You can always make a load by mixing a fast burning powder with the slower burning powder you desire to use that will maximize the 22" barrel.
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Burris scopes are usually good scopes. You might get by with just a cheekpad. I would fold up a hand towel for a temporary cheekpad.
John Deer, Why in the hell would you suggest to anyone to mix powders. For anyone to do that,I would say you are a complete IDIOT. I've reloaded for well over 30 years,and you are the first person that I've ever seen suggesting someone to play mad scientist with reloading powders.
I have more respect for myself/my firearms/and my fellow shooters to ever suggest someone in even trying to mix powders of different burn rates. That's a good way to get yourself or someone else injured,besides being very stupid!

Burris builds fair optics,but the OP's problem is with a long length of pull stock,and the scope is mounted in 2 pc base/rings,which limits the ability to move the scope forward/backwards on a long action receiver.

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The common misconception in rifle shooting is longer = more accurate stiffer does = accuracy hence the bull barrel. Out of the vast majority of cartridges the minimal gain in speed vs the stiffer shorter barrels inherent accuracy is well worth the trade off. It has everything to do with barrel harmonics. Two barrels that are the exact same but in length the shorter barrel will be more accurate (within reason) .
A 25/06,generally shoots best with a 24"-26" barrel,and there are a bunch of rifle makers that are putting shorter barrels on calibers that shoot better with longer tubes.
It's true,a shorter barrel is stiffer no matter what the diameter is,but we were speaking about the 25/06.
Short action calibers can get away with shorter barrels since case capacity is a lot smaller,and still get a full powder burn before leaving the barrel,Long action calibers usually like a longer barrel.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:16 AM   #35
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You don't need a Bench rifle for hunting. You need a functional firearm of adequate energy to cleanly take your intended prey. Hunting with rifles that have minimal head space and target barrels is a give away. The owner is an inexperienced hunter. Watch him closely.
I beg to differ.
I hunt with heavy barrels on almost all of my rifles,and have done so for several decades. It all depends on the type of hunting your doing.
Hell,My old Ruger #1 300 WM that I elk hunted with for many years wasn't light by any means,and it never once bothered me hiking up and down the mountains with it. It weighed right at 11 lbs,and that isn't much lighter than a lot of my heavy barreled rifles I hunt with.
It's all what your used to,and comfortable in using.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:49 AM   #36
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John Deer, Why in the hell would you suggest to anyone to mix powders. For anyone to do that,I would say you are a complete IDIOT. I've reloaded for well over 30 years,and you are the first person that I've ever seen suggesting someone to play mad scientist with reloading powders.
I have more respect for myself/my firearms/and my fellow shooters to ever suggest someone in even trying to mix powders of different burn rates. That's a good way to get yourself or someone else injured,besides being very stupid!

Burris builds fair optics,but the OP's problem is with a long length of pull stock,and the scope is mounted in 2 pc base/rings,which limits the ability to move the scope forward/backwards on a long action receiver.



A 25/06,generally shoots best with a 24"-26" barrel,and there are a bunch of rifle makers that are putting shorter barrels on calibers that shoot better with longer tubes.
It's true,a shorter barrel is stiffer no matter what the diameter is,but we were speaking about the 25/06.
Short action calibers can get away with shorter barrels since case capacity is a lot smaller,and still get a full powder burn before leaving the barrel,Long action calibers usually like a longer barrel.
Blending powders is a very advanced form of loading and not covered in manuals. I wouldnt call him an idiot as it is a valid technique since thats how cartridge companies come up with their high velocity lower pressure rounds like hornady amax and vmax bullets.

Its not a technique you really want to play with for the average handloader. I personally have no desire to kaboom one of my guns fiddling around with that form of loading
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:25 AM   #37
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Nitestalker, you're absolutely right about not needing a "bench" rifle for hunting. But I live in central Texas, so I don't truly have to hunt. More accurately its just killing. With hunting seasons making up only a small part of the year, I prefer rifles that can also be at home on the bench, year round. Truth be told, for any of my "hunting" rifles, rounds fired at game make up less than 1% of the total round count. The other 99% is spent on a bench working up a new load, re-zeroing after a scope upgrade, or just plain having fun. This is also why I like heavy barrels. Sure, barrel harmonics and stiffness are dominant factors in accuracy, but what flips my switch is the effect that barrel heat has on shot groups. So I prefer heavy barrels because I'm simply impatient!

When it comes to an overbore cartridge packed with medium to slow burn rate powders, barrel length DOES indeed matter. I chose the .25-06, knowing very little about it, because I enjoy the learning process. I may investigate powder burning efficiencies in 22" - 26" barrels and post later in the reloading forum.

Txhillbilly, thank you for your advice on the one piece base. Eye-relief issues aside, I was surprised at the reasonable quality of the Burris optic and I haven't decided if it will stay or not. If so, the one piece base is a sure thing. As for the stock, I find it hard to beat the aesthetics of a Boyd's laminate at the price their offering. While traditional wood might be significantly easier to custom form, a representative at Boyd's assured me their laminate would also be workable. I'll have to dig further into that before I decide.

And finally to address the ill-advised misinformation concerning mixed powders, I wonder if that post could somehow be removed. It'd be a shame if a novice only read that far into the thread and proceeded to experiment with powders in deadly fashion.

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Old 10-08-2013, 04:42 AM   #38
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Blending powders is a very advanced form of loading and not covered in manuals. I wouldnt call him an idiot as it is a valid technique since thats how cartridge companies come up with their high velocity lower pressure rounds like hornady amax and vmax bullets.

Its not a technique you really want to play with for the average handloader. I personally have no desire to kaboom one of my guns fiddling around with that form of loading
It's very true that cartridge mfg's.,and powder companies do blend powders,but they also have chemist's with PHD's working in their development labs. They also have the ability to test their creations under safe controlled environments with the correct equipment to tell them the actual pressure curves in a load.

Very few,if any reloaders have that ability therefore I would say anyone that home blends their own powders is probably an Idiot!
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #39
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It's very true that cartridge mfg's.,and powder companies do blend powders,but they also have chemist's with PHD's working in their development labs. They also have the ability to test their creations under safe controlled environments with the correct equipment to tell them the actual pressure curves in a load.

Very few,if any reloaders have that ability therefore I would say anyone that home blends their own powders is probably an Idiot!
I have come across charts online for blending powder for 5.56x45. That is why I mentioned it. I assume that one would find a proven source such as powder manufacturer before working up a load. I don't even reload 5.56x45 ammo yet I was able to find this info. I am sure other manufacturers have similar charts if they are applicable for the caliber you are reloading. I don't consider loads worked up by anonymous individuals online.

I didn't see your comments worthy of a reply. Since you want to puff up on everyone I decided to comment. This is a good rule of thumb you might want to consider. If you would not say something to someone's face because they would punch your lights out, you shouldn't say it online.

By the way most (not all) Savage stocks are short (13.5" or less LOP). Moving the scope back on a gun with a short stock is a good way to get a busted eye. Burris scopes have decent eye relief (3.5" to 5"). Aligning the shooters eye with the scope is the way to get the maximum eye relief.

I found myself scrunching up to see through the scope on my shotgun that has been fitted to me. When my gunsmith fitted the shotgun he fitted it for a vent rib. A cheek pad aligns my eye perfectly with the scope.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #40
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I have come across charts online for blending powder for 5.56x45. That is why I mentioned it. I assume that one would find a proven source such as powder manufacturer before working up a load. I don't even reload 5.56x45 ammo yet I was able to find this info. I am sure other manufacturers have similar charts if they are applicable for the caliber you are reloading. I don't consider loads worked up by anonymous individuals online.

I didn't see your comments worthy of a reply. Since you want to puff up on everyone I decided to comment. This is a good rule of thumb you might want to consider. If you would not say something to someone's face because they would punch your lights out, you shouldn't say it online.

By the way most (not all) Savage stocks are short (13.5" or less LOP). Moving the scope back on a gun with a short stock is a good way to get a busted eye. Burris scopes have decent eye relief (3.5" to 5"). Aligning the shooters eye with the scope is the way to get the maximum eye relief.

I found myself scrunching up to see through the scope on my shotgun that has been fitted to me. When my gunsmith fitted the shotgun he fitted it for a vent rib. A cheek pad aligns my eye perfectly with the scope.
i have to agree with TXhillbilly, that even if blending can be done, it isn't something a newbie to reloading should be trying to do. too much potential for problems if the mix was incorrect. really not a good suggestion to be making. my father and i talked about this several years ago and he had been reloading for almost 35 years, and he said trying to mix powders was a good way to end up hurt, blind or dead if you got the mix ratio wrong. he said to stick with load data books as they were proven loads. looking at all the powders available today and more becoming available, i can't see any advantage in mixing powders. there is a huge range of powders, from slow to fast and all in between.
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