243. Vs 308. - Page 8
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by simpkinst View Post
Ruger American is now available in 7mm-08.

I think this is one of the best deer cartridges out there. Much better than the 243 and has slightly less kick than a 308.

But then again I am partial to 7mm's.
What s going on with that Glock looking trigger on the Ruger American? A German rep for Ruger showed me the rifle, but I did not ask.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:15 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Salvo
About burning out .243 barrels:

58 grn Hornady V-Max
47.5 grn H380
@ 3800 fps

58 grn Hornady V-Max
43 grn VARGET
@ 3700 fps

If you regularly shoot 58 grain varmint bullets at or near max loadings, the throat in a .243 will start to deteriorate pretty soon, but it will still take you a while to "burn out the barrel".

So - it is possible but you would have to work at it.

Hardly anybody shoots the light bullets at max velocity in a .243, but enough have to start the "barrel burn-out" stories circulating. The guys that do this sort of thing tend to think of burning out a barrel as a bragging point, so yes, the stories do get exaggerated.

Shooting 85-110 grain bullets commonly utilized for deer hunting, or the 70 grain varmint bullets that my gun prefers accuracy-wise, the chances of burning out the barrel in a .243 Winchester are quite remote.

On .308 vs .243:

Since both are accurate rounds that do a great job on deer, I'd go with the .243 on account of the reduced recoil, and more easily obtainable ammunition since .243 is seldom chambered in "tactical" arms.

This assumes though that deer will be the largest game shot at. - If anything larger or more dangerous than deer are a serious possibility, then I'd go with the .308.
I know three people who have successfully hunted elk with the 243 for several decades. It is quite adequate for animals larger than deer.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:37 AM   #73
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I know three people who have successfully hunted elk with the 243 for several decades. It is quite adequate for animals larger than deer.
ADEQUATE! Is not good enough for me, I respect the game animals to much!
A 223 is 'adequate' too, but like the 243 is is not the right tool if you want to do the job RIGHT!
I had a friend whose wife went elk hunting every year and she shot a 243. She did not always come home with an elk, BUT if she shot one she always got it because she:
1. Would not shot more than 100 yds.
2. She shot hand loaded 100 gr Nosler Partition bullets.
3. She shot only if it was a standing broadside shot. ( she placed her shot right EVERY TIME)
This does not mean this is a rifle/caliber you should hunt elk with.
Many whom I hunted with used a 270 with 130 gr standard cup and core bullets and they wounded more elk than you can imagine! Thus who started using 150 gr NP bullets had very good results. I personally saw more wounded elk from people not having enough knowledge of which bullets/caliber to use than shot placement.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:46 AM   #74
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ADEQUATE! Is not good enough for me, I respect the game animals to much!
A 223 is 'adequate' too, but like the 243 is is not the right tool if you want to do the job RIGHT!
I had a friend whose wife went elk hunting every year and she shot a 243. She did not always come home with an elk, BUT if she shot one she always got it because she:
1. Would not shot more than 100 yds.
2. She shot hand loaded 100 gr Nosler Partition bullets.
3. She shot only if it was a standing broadside shot. ( she placed her shot right EVERY TIME)
This does not mean this is a rifle/caliber you should hunt elk with.
Many whom I hunted with used a 270 with 130 gr standard cup and core bullets and they wounded more elk than you can imagine! Thus who started using 150 gr NP bullets had very good results. I personally saw more wounded elk from people not having enough knowledge of which bullets/caliber to use than shot placement.
I've seen the same thing with whitetails. I can't count the number of deer I've seen lost with 130gr bullets. 150gr seems to do pretty good, but I'm just not a .270 fan.

When I started hunting me, my buddies, and my dad all hunted with what ever we ended up with. Eventually we are able to upgrade to what we wanted, or thought we wanted. My dad got a 270 and gave me his 303 British. He had never lost a deer with the .303 but he lost quite a few with the 270. One of my close friends put up his father's model 99 in 308 and got a 270. He never lost a deer with the 308 but he lost quite a few with the 270. Another close friend started with a 270 and lost deer but then got a .243 (after getting his nose split with the scope). He never lost a deer with the .243. Eventually he decided to get a 7mm mag and he lost a couple with the 7mm mag. Again he never lost one with the .243. All the worst results were with 130gr bullets in their 270's, but quite a few were lost with 150 gr bullets. None of them use a 270 today.

I took my Dads old .303 and slayed deer with it!

Some calibers just work and I really don't know why. A .243 is one of those that just works. I know plenty of people that say it isn't enough bullet, but everyone I know that actually uses a .243 has never had a problem which is more than I can say for a 270. For anyone that thinks a .243 isn't enough to kill deer, or elk, let's put this into perspective. Prehistoric humans killed both with sharp pointed sticks, and they did it humanly because they wanted a quick kill for super. Of course they had a lot of experience at what they were doing.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:48 AM   #75
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I know three people who have successfully hunted elk with the 243 for several decades. It is quite adequate for animals larger than deer.
Come up to Alaska with me and lets hunt some brown bear. You with the 243, and I'll stick to my 338. If we wound one and it disappears into the alders, you best take lead with that more than adequate 243!
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #76
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I've seen the same thing with whitetails. I can't count the number of deer I've seen lost with 130gr bullets. 150gr seems to do pretty good, but I'm just not a .270 fan.

When I started hunting me, my buddies, and my dad all hunted with what ever we ended up with. Eventually we are able to upgrade to what we wanted, or thought we wanted. My dad got a 270 and gave me his 303 British. He had never lost a deer with the .303 but he lost quite a few with the 270. One of my close friends put up his father's model 99 in 308 and got a 270. He never lost a deer with the 308 but he lost quite a few with the 270. Another close friend started with a 270 and lost deer but then got a .243 (after getting his nose split with the scope). He never lost a deer with the .243. Eventually he decided to get a 7mm mag and he lost a couple with the 7mm mag. Again he never lost one with the .243. All the worst results were with 130gr bullets in their 270's, but quite a few were lost with 150 gr bullets. None of them use a 270 today.

I took my Dads old .303 and slayed deer with it!

Some calibers just work and I really don't know why. A .243 is one of those that just works. I know plenty of people that say it isn't enough bullet, but everyone I know that actually uses a .243 has never had a problem which is more than I can say for a 270. For anyone that thinks a .243 isn't enough to kill deer, or elk, let's put this into perspective. Prehistoric humans killed both with sharp pointed sticks, and they did it humanly because they wanted a quick kill for super. Of course they had a lot of experience at what they were doing.
I guess we have to disagree on this. The 243 should be outlawed for ALL big game and relegated to the varmint caliber it is! I have seen more problems with wounded and lost BIG game with the 243 than all other calibers combined. As I stated above IF you are VERY restrictive in its use you can take big game with it but most who use it over extend it's capability!
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:52 PM   #77
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I guess we have to disagree on this. The 243 should be outlawed for ALL big game and relegated to the varmint caliber it is! I have seen more problems with wounded and lost BIG game with the 243 than all other calibers combined. As I stated above IF you are VERY restrictive in its use you can take big game with it but most who use it over extend it's capability!

JimRau, I guess you closed your mind and didn't learn a thing from our previous discussions on the capabilities of the .243. I didn't know that you supported gun restrictions. You must be more liberal than we thought. The .243 should never be "outlawed" for anything. In fact, I believe that all new and beginning hunters should be REQUIRED to start out w/ a .243. After becoming proficient with it, he or she can then move up if so desired, but I'll bet you they won't want to. Well, I've now got to get back to loading up some big game loads for my 6mm Remington; oh, I suppose that the 6mm Rem. is not capable for big game use also?
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:02 PM   #78
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I have to agree with CT. When .243's become outlawed, I will become an outlaw. Besides, your OPINION of my choice in caliber and rifle is just that, an opinion.

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Old 04-30-2013, 12:25 AM   #79
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What s going on with that Glock looking trigger on the Ruger American? A German rep for Ruger showed me the rifle, but I did not ask.
Gun manufacturers in the US have been putting some pretty awful triggers in their gun for years, trying to avoid lawsuits. By awful, I mean hard-pulling triggers.

Then Savage came up with the Accutrigger, which had the little blade in the center that you noticed. The blade acts as a safety. In Savage's case it blocks the sear. - This allows you to have a very light trigger which is also very safe.

My Savage model 16 has an Accutrigger, which I have set for 1.5 pounds weight. If I actuate the trigger without pressing the blade ( pressing from one side ) it de-cocks the weapon but the firing pin does not move.

Similarly, if a sudden jar were to actuate my light trigger, the gun would not fire since the blade would still be blocking the sear.

When I pull the trigger on that gun, I feel the blade first, then the trigger. This is quite handy with a 1.5 pound trigger.

Savage engineers took a ride on a forklift with an accutrigger gun when demonstrating it to the Savage brass... They dropped the gun from fifteen feet or so - and the blade blocked the sear.

The Ruger blade blocks the trigger itself, if I understand correctly, thus getting around Savage's patent. Both work, but I like the Savage system better.

This is why some shooters say that Savage has the best trigger on the market.

I shot a five-round, 1/2" group last week with my Savage .243 - and I'm not the worlds best shot. I think that the trigger had a lot to do with it.



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Old 04-30-2013, 12:41 AM   #80
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I wouldn't skip over the Nikon scopes, and if you have a little more cash to spend look at vortex, they have a lifetime warranty. Also Redfield and Leopold are great, as mentioned above.
I like the Nikon scopes quite a bit. The two models that I have tried are the Prostaff 3-9x40 BDC, a real workhorse, and the Monarch 4-16x42 Side-Focus BDC, which is a premium scope as good or perhaps better than the Leupolds that I have bought for years.

Lately I have been trying out a scope made by Swift, a 4x handgun scope. I have been using Swift's stereo microscopes for years, they make fine optics for lab work. - Now they make scopes for firearms too and so far I have been very happy with the handgun scope I bought.

One nice touch on the Swift was that it came with a sunshade. - Prices are not too outrageous, either.



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