243. Vs 308. - Page 5
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by highpowerguy View Post
Your velocities are out of date because you are referencing old military ball ammo that was designed for the M-1 which had a weakness in the op rod that prevented slower burning powders from being used.
The military knew that they could duplicate the performance with a smaller case and modern powders and that would allow them to transport more ammo, and so was born the 7.62x51 NATO and the M1A/M14
There is something to be said for the 308 performing well through a variety of different ammo because of its higher pressure and faster powders, and I will give you that. However the reason the military uses the 308 for sniper rifles is for logistical reasons not because it is the best performer.
The police snipers use the .308 for uniformity and testing reasons (you have to have a lot of documentation in law enforcement) it is far easier to use .308 than to pay to get all of your own testing done and then have it scrutinized in court.
The standard for sniper testing on my counties swat team is a four inch cranial ball at 200 yards, hardly what i would consider precision shooting.
The two active duty Army snipers that I shoot with have told me that if a shot is over 300 yards they will try to grab the .50 for fear of missing due to the ballistic limitations of the .308 Most units in today's Army don't want a bolt gun in their squad at all, which has resulted in a great decline in the use of the .308 in favor of the SDM rifle.

My 30-06 hunting load is a 180 gr Hornady BTSP that chrono's about 2750 from the muzzle (before you say anything I own a chrono so I know what my velocities are) most 150 gr factory loaded ammo leaves the muzzle around 2950 -3000 fps ( Hornady makes some that run 3100) so I'm sorry but I cannot find a ballistic advantage anywhere in the .308. And when my 06 will shoot a 3/4 MOA group with my hand loads I can't find a significant difference in accuracy for a hunting rifle.

Real Shooters!?
Well, I was only an infantryman in the 82nd for four years, but for the last ten I have been shooting NRA high power and CMP service rifle competition.
Out of curiosity where did you finish in the P-100 the last time you shot at camp perry. I was 330 something (Anonymity) out of over 1200 competitors.
Also what's your NRA classification card say on it. Mine says Master.
I was also ranked 17th in the south east region vintage rifle category by the CMP that year.
So until you can break 190 on a full length 600 yard MR target don't talk to me about real shooters.
lmao ooooooooook think im done on this subject not here to fight and not a sniper but i know a few and all agree 308 is superior as far as 30 cals go without going magnum level. .im done with this convo t/y.What works best for you i say my freind.And i damn sure aint gonna go through my entire military career on here ,Have a wonderful day my freind, t/y for ya service hoooooooooooooa!!!!!
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:39 AM   #42
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My regular deer gun was a Browning BLR lever rifle in .308 until I moved to west Texas, where the game is larger and further away than I am used to.

The ranches here specify 30-06 or 7mm Rem mag as minimum cartridges, so I'll be buying a 7mm mag bolt gun soon, to go along with my BLR on hunting excursions.

If I can use the .308 I will though, as that BLR handles very nice and is easy to carry around.

The 7mm mag bolt gun is going to be heavier, longer, etc.. - But it will humanely knock down a bull elk or a mule deer at much longer distances than the .308 will do in my handy little BLR, so next year I'll be dragging two guns along with me.

BTW, you fellows should avoid pissing contests, as it is messy and you only end up smelling like urine. - Been there, done that, rinsed myself off and avoid it now.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinet6
Which do you think is a better round? Which is more versatile? And why?
You really need to define your situation better. Both are excellent, popular cartridges but they are different. Looking just at the two you mention.

If you are a smaller individual or particularly recoil shy the .243 may be for you. Same if you want one gun to shoot varmints, predators and deer size game.

On the other hand, if all you are interested in is deer and perhaps larger game like elk the .308 is a better choice. In normal times its probably a bit easier to find and probably has a wider selection of bullets.

In the end, there really is no "best" choice. For any hunting or target shooting role you will find people who love many different cartridges for perfectly good reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjim
308 is a necked down 30-06 case,
The .308 isn't a necked down .30-06.

First off its not necked down as they both use the same caliber bullets, secondly the .308 is based on a totally different, shorter case.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #44
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My $.02 = The .308 win. has been the caliber of choice for the U.S. military and many S.W.A.T. teams for a long time.

A .30 caliber round will cover 90% of what you need a rifle to do.

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Old 04-25-2013, 04:15 PM   #45
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i my self have both also my daughter has a 243 , i started her on it mostly due to the recoil factor , also its what i started hunting on , growing up my father was a hand loader and used both on varm and deer , but he did prefer the 243 for varm but has shot many groundhog out at 250+ with downloaded 308 rounds , as for preference i use my 243 for varm and doe season and my 308 for bucks again just a preference , now that my daughter is older i have asked her if she wants a bigger gun and she has said several times no im happy and my gun shoots just fine , so honestly i think its just a matter of what your going to be hunting mostly and what your going to shoot well just my op though

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Old 04-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #46
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Quote:
The .308 isn't a necked down .30-06.

First off its not necked down as they both use the same caliber bullets, secondly the .308 is based on a totally different, shorter case.
Caliber, yes, length, no. The cantilure is in different places on each, the OAL is different. Necked down may be misleading, but the parent case for the 308 IS the 30-06.

Jim
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Salvo View Post
My regular deer gun was a Browning BLR lever rifle in .308 until I moved to west Texas, where the game is larger and further away than I am used to.

The ranches here specify 30-06 or 7mm Rem mag as minimum cartridges, so I'll be buying a 7mm mag bolt gun soon, to go along with my BLR on hunting excursions.

If I can use the .308 I will though, as that BLR handles very nice and is easy to carry around.

The 7mm mag bolt gun is going to be heavier, longer, etc.. - But it will humanely knock down a bull elk or a mule deer at much longer distances than the .308 will do in my handy little BLR, so next year I'll be dragging two guns along with me.

BTW, you fellows should avoid pissing contests, as it is messy and you only end up smelling like urine. - Been there, done that, rinsed myself off and avoid it now.

Are you kidding? Avoid "pissing contests," as you call them? Why that's what forums are for. A person can take on the role of being a big know it all even when he is not. Usually one can google a topic and get enough info to at least appear to be knowledgeable and then come back on the forum and continue the fight. He will win some and lose some. If he wins, great; another feather in the ego cap. If he loses, he can just remain silent for a while, and it will go away and be forgotten. What I like is when I have a guy by the gonads and then just continue to squeeze. It can be very amusing when the guy tries to save face by continuing to make replies when in actuality, he just continues to dig deeper into his hole, when he should just keep quiet until the topic goes away. Forums and posts without the occasional "pissing contests" would be very BORING!!!!!!!
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvo View Post
My regular deer gun was a Browning BLR lever rifle in .308 until I moved to west Texas, where the game is larger and further away than I am used to.

The ranches here specify 30-06 or 7mm Rem mag as minimum cartridges, so I'll be buying a 7mm mag bolt gun soon, to go along with my BLR on hunting excursions.

If I can use the .308 I will though, as that BLR handles very nice and is easy to carry around.

The 7mm mag bolt gun is going to be heavier, longer, etc.. - But it will humanely knock down a bull elk or a mule deer at much longer distances than the .308 will do in my handy little BLR, so next year I'll be dragging two guns along with me.

BTW, you fellows should avoid pissing contests, as it is messy and you only end up smelling like urine. - Been there, done that, rinsed myself off and avoid it now.
UM if ya see my last post i was done with it ,and did not start it, i bowed out at that point when it became the bragger board and how good he is etc.so no pizzing nothing here.all him.i gave my opinion that i think the 308 is better he went off on his life history ,i dont care to respond to it myself.looks pretty silly to me to post all that over which cal one guy likes and one that does not.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Milsurpshooter60

I load my own.so hope that answers ya ? my freind.and slower? my 308 loads are pushing at over 2800 fps, the 06 is usually about 2700 with the same 150 grain bullet, powder and primer..Guess its a matter of choice and what has worked better for me.and for long range shooting i favor the 168 grain bthp in my 308.
That's what started it.
I was going to let sleeping dogs lie but seriously, listening to him talk about ballistics is like listening to a virgin describe sex. A quick glance at any reloading manual blows holes in this argument. I also wouldn't have referenced my experience if he hadn't brought up his military service. I appreciate the service that he has given but I also know that the military teaches very little in the way of real shooting skills or ballistics knowledge. I used to think I could shoot too! Anyway be happy in your ignorance I have better things to do then screw with this board if y'all ever become interested in shooting more than pie plates cruise on over to snipers hide there are some there who can get you on the right track. This board is a joke.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:09 PM   #50
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Sorry to burst you bubbles but the 308 is a proprietary round and was not derived from another cartridge. It was specifically designed to function through automatic weapons better than the 30-06 and has an entirely different base. Not the 300 Savage either. You might get away with making brass from an 06 but it will not function well if at all in automatic weapons.
I probably could have named a dozen different cartridges other than the 270 but I went with the one that had ammo readily available.

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