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Old 05-04-2013, 07:23 PM   #131
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I guess many don't get it.
Both the 357 and 223/243 can take deer BUT they are subject to some strict limitations!!! If you understand these limitations and have the knowledge and discipline to hunt within the limitations so be it.
The point I have been trying to get across and the emotions of some get in the way is:
FOR THE AVERAGE OR BEGINNING HUNTER THESE ARE NOT THE CALIBERS (223/243/357) I WOULD RECOMMEND OR ADVISE BECAUSE OF THEIR STRICT LIMITATIONS!
Nuff said!
Jim you've made very valid points, but I've got one more I hope to make. So let me try taking a different approach here. What do you consider the maximum effective range of a 243 for whitetails?
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:26 PM   #132
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Jim you've made very valid points, but I've got one more I hope to make. So let me try taking a different approach here. What do you consider the maximum effective range of a 243 for whitetails?
IMO, with the proper bullets and shot placement, 200 yards or less, and closer to 150 yards or less.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:54 PM   #133
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IMO, with the proper bullets and shot placement, 200 yards or less, and closer to 150 yards or less.
I'm thinking 300 yards. And that's based on my buddy dropping them in their tracks at 250 yards with no problem (after he learned to shoot).
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #134
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IMO, with the proper bullets and shot placement, 200 yards or less, and closer to 150 yards or less.
That sounds like a very adequate round for my area (Thickly wooded coastal plain). I think unless you're hunting power lines, most shots are taken at 200yds or less here. I'd love to shoot a .243 to get a feel for em.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:45 PM   #135
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my issue with this caliber debate is the statement that the .243 should be outlawed due to one persons witness to wounded game:

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I guess we have to disagree on this. The 243 should be outlawed for ALL big game and relegated to the varmint caliber it is! I have seen more problems with wounded and lost BIG game with the 243 than all other calibers combined. As I stated above IF you are VERY restrictive in its use you can take big game with it but most who use it over extend it's capability!
for one thing, it sounds alot like piers morgan calling for a ban on AR-15's due to an isolated school shooting, and i don't have the paitence for someones opinion infringing on my rights. secondly, I have killed large and "dangerous" game with a .22 mag {bang stick} many times, perhaps even into the hundreds. Trust me, the gators in these swamps are way bigger and more dangerous than your elk and whitetails. If you are uncomfortable with the .243 then by all means, choose something else. But the fact remains that the caliber is very capable.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:51 PM   #136
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my issue with this caliber debate is the statement that the .243 should be outlawed due to one persons witness to wounded game:



for one thing, it sounds alot like piers morgan calling for a ban on AR-15's due to an isolated school shooting, and i don't have the paitence for someones opinion infringing on my rights. secondly, I have killed large and "dangerous" game with a .22 mag {bang stick} many times, perhaps even into the hundreds. Trust me, the gators in these swamps are way bigger and more dangerous than your elk and whitetails. If you are uncomfortable with the .243 then by all means, choose something else. But the fact remains that the caliber is very capable.
Now go back and read my LAST post!
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:17 PM   #137
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Saying you don't advise them, and saying they should be outlawed are two very different statements.

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Old 05-04-2013, 09:31 PM   #138
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Saying you don't advise them, and saying they should be outlawed are two very different statements.
IIRC, some states do have caliber restrictions, such a minimum that can be used. so actually even though i don't totally agree with his idea, it's not really that farfetched and not any outlawing our rights to firearms or hunting but placing restrictions in regard to what's most appropriate for hunting.

some states, you ae only allowed shotguns or rifles using handgun cartridges.

so based on that, how is his suggestion any different than what some already have?
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:58 PM   #139
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The .243 is a minimum calibre for use on deer in Australia in most states and considering a Red or Sambar deer are a very large animal and most hunters of these especially Sambar use 30/06 and the bigger .30's plus some use .40 and .45 cal rifles as well because their ability to carry lead is from a misplaced shot is unreal and most shots are taken in very thick scrub and in some cases less than 5yds so a .243 won't cut it there but on something like Fallow,Chital or Hog Deer the .243 will work ok but I for 1 would prefer something with a bit more punch.

Now in New Zealand years ago the humble .222 was used on deer culls shot out of helicopters on Reds and with great success but these blokes were shooting day in and day out from a moving platform that was hovering in high mountainous areas so they would've had to have put up with updrafts etc. but they also were dropped off and had to shoot in these areas and a .222 will drift a lot so they had to master their shot placement well.

The .243 if used the way it's meant to be is a very efficient round but people for some reason try to elevate it to some God like weapon when like a lot of other smaller and larger calibres it's never meant to be the be all and end all of calibres but good at what it's meant to do and that's a very efficient small game rifle on pigs,goats,foxes,long range rabbit, PD's ground hogs and some deer.

The .308 on the other hand is a game rifle that handles just about everything bar stuff like Buffalo, Lions etc it may do it but once again it's not meant to do it as it's out of it's class so at the end of the day there really is no sense comparing the 2 calibres as they're built for different game.

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Old 05-04-2013, 10:48 PM   #140
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IIRC, some states do have caliber restrictions, such a minimum that can be used. so actually even though i don't totally agree with his idea, it's not really that farfetched and not any outlawing our rights to firearms or hunting but placing restrictions in regard to what's most appropriate for hunting.

some states, you ae only allowed shotguns or rifles using handgun cartridges.

so based on that, how is his suggestion any different than what some already have?
I honestly cannot speak of other states restrictions as i have no direct knowledge of them. I imagine shotgun only restrictions have something to do with the population of a given area and the potential flight time/distance of a rifles projectile (?). Im sure the sates that have such laws don't believe that a rifle is incapable of harvesting game animals. Others may already have those laws in their counties or states, but they still have a right to go else where to hunt. If you don't like your states laws or restrictions, then move, but don't tell me Im not allowed to do something because you are not allowed too! (or in this case I'm incapable of killing with a .243 because he is incapable). If I was on someones property and they said shot guns only, I would follow their rules out of respect for them and their property. But saying a caliber should be outlawed because you personally have seen bad results with it just means you are in the company of poor marksmen, it does not reflect on the capabilities of the cartridge itself. IMO its not any different from saying Glocks should be outlawed because of a handful of Glock leg(s). The point I am trying to make is in your signature... (a vote is like a rifle...)

its not the cartridge, its the shooter.
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