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Old 12-23-2011, 06:24 PM   #31
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an ethical hunter goes for a quick and clean shot with whatever he uses to hunt with, be it rifle or a bow. can an elk be killed ethically with a 243? yes if a person has practiced and has an accurate rifle loaded with the proper ammo and waits for the proper shot placement. in the hands of the the average hunter, no it's not. i personally wouldn't hunt elk with a 243, because i prefer a little larger caliber to reduce my margin for error. hypothetical situation, if i was hunting to have to eat, vs. starving, i only had a 243, elk standing at 500+ yards off, dang right i'm taking a shot! but average hunting situations and average shooter, a larger caliber than a 243 should be used. but another consideration and a point that has been said, know what your rifle and you can do and practice with it. a good clean kill with a 243 is much better than a bad shot with 338 magnum.

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Old 12-24-2011, 02:52 PM   #32
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Really? What are you 12? Why don't you just stick out your tongue and post a picture of it. It would have saved you a lot of typing...

Actually I am not 12, I am 60. I am a writer and a published author. I am currently writing a book of of poetry; the title, "O'Sullivan's Place, the Poetry of Joe Robert." I think I will include this poem in the book. It currently is scheduled to be released in March if I can get off my duff and finish it. Go to my home page to see a picture of the cover of my last book, "Of Children and Unicorns." Send me a pm if you want an autographed copy. Also, you can check out the reviews on amazon.com.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:24 PM   #33
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Send me a pm if you want an autographed copy.
Gotta love it.

Now that's the way you detour an argument.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:43 PM   #34
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Gotta love it.

Now that's the way you detour an argument.
There was never an argument to be had. If I want to read poetry I'll go to a poetry forum. Here to discuss guns and gun related things and not really interested in whether he is a published poetry author since it brings nothing to the discussion. Thanks for your kind offer for an autographed copy but I've never been much of a poetry kind of guy. I prefer to read guys like Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald.

I guess my reply was a little harsh and for that I apologize. It really came out a lot stronger than how I really feel. Maybe I shouldn't be so direct and put a at the end...
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Old 12-24-2011, 06:12 PM   #35
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Too many variables on both sides for there to be a decisive answer. Right shooter right gun/ammo right location all provide acceptable results.

Before I bought property in N. NM I had never shot a deer more than 50 yards away. Due to the terrain I was accustomed to hunting, an animal that can run 100 yards after the shot means a couple of hours of tracking.

In the sage, I could shoot an elk from great distances and with everything in the ' right' there wouldn't be a problem.

That young lady was set up for greatness. I unfortunately rarely find such a circumstance. I've shot enough critters in my time to know there will always be another one to shoot. If I was put in that ultimate scenario I would shoot to. But in my reality, that wouldn't work.

.243 - whitetail
I just bought a .308 to hunt elk
I wanted a .270 but there is a larger margin for error.

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Old 12-24-2011, 10:22 PM   #36
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Too many variables on both sides for there to be a decisive answer. Right shooter right gun/ammo right location all provide acceptable results.

Before I bought property in N. NM I had never shot a deer more than 50 yards away. Due to the terrain I was accustomed to hunting, an animal that can run 100 yards after the shot means a couple of hours of tracking.

In the sage, I could shoot an elk from great distances and with everything in the ' right' there wouldn't be a problem.

That young lady was set up for greatness. I unfortunately rarely find such a circumstance. I've shot enough critters in my time to know there will always be another one to shoot. If I was put in that ultimate scenario I would shoot to. But in my reality, that wouldn't work.

.243 - whitetail
I just bought a .308 to hunt elk
I wanted a .270 but there is a larger margin for error.

I don't quite understand that last statement. "I wanted a .270 but there is a larger margin for error." Could you please explain that?
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:07 PM   #37
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It really depends on the distance you will hunt. If a .308 hits at 100 yards w/ more retained energy, it will create a larger wound channel, thus destroying organs within the animal without a perfect hit. That is theory. It also is fact in some cases. The .308 will be traveling at a lower velosity at 100 yards then a .270. With a given bullet, if it is pushed to fast, it can blow apart and seriously injure and eventually kill large game. Sometimes a slower bullet w/ more mass and the correct construction can actually do a better job at certain distances.
I always use a 286gr 9.3 for an example. At 200 yards it has over 2100fpe, 300 yards..1700, 400 is 1450 which is on the lower side of what I feel comfortable w/ for Elk. The real down side is the bullet drop. 21 inches at 300 yards. Only 4" at 200. 55" at 400. The 130gr .270 maxs' at 400 yards. Where a 168gr .308 is about 25 yards behind. Bullet construction really plays into these statements.

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Old 12-25-2011, 01:03 AM   #38
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It really depends on the distance you will hunt. If a .308 hits at 100 yards w/ more retained energy, it will create a larger wound channel, thus destroying organs within the animal without a perfect hit. That is theory. It also is fact in some cases. The .308 will be traveling at a lower velosity at 100 yards then a .270. With a given bullet, if it is pushed to fast, it can blow apart and seriously injure and eventually kill large game. Sometimes a slower bullet w/ more mass and the correct construction can actually do a better job at certain distances.
I always use a 286gr 9.3 for an example. At 200 yards it has over 2100fpe, 300 yards..1700, 400 is 1450 which is on the lower side of what I feel comfortable w/ for Elk. The real down side is the bullet drop. 21 inches at 300 yards. Only 4" at 200. 55" at 400. The 130gr .270 maxs' at 400 yards. Where a 168gr .308 is about 25 yards behind. Bullet construction really plays into these statements.


That was a mouth full but I think it was a great example of what everyone is saying just in different ways. Know your equipment. Unfortunately for critters there is usually a learning curve for getting to know your equipment.

I'm sure there are loads, shots, and situations were a .243 is perfect for elk. I'm also sure that there are loads, shots, and situations were a .243 is a poor choice. The same goes for every caliber and every critter. It's something that is learned with experience.

Mistakes with the big calibers often results in overkill, which is a quicker and more human kill. So I can understand why some suggest a large, or at least a larger, caliber. At the same time it still comes down to shot placement and some people are going to be more accurate and deadly with a .243 simply because they are more comfortable with it and its lighter recoil. Either way it all still comes down to experience. So there really isn't a right or wrong answer, just different ways of thinking about the same problem, which ultimately is how to best make up for a lack of experience. Well that's my opinion anyway.

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Old 12-25-2011, 01:42 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jpattersonnh View Post
It really depends on the distance you will hunt. If a .308 hits at 100 yards w/ more retained energy, it will create a larger wound channel, thus destroying organs within the animal without a perfect hit. That is theory. It also is fact in some cases. The .308 will be traveling at a lower velosity at 100 yards then a .270. With a given bullet, if it is pushed to fast, it can blow apart and seriously injure and eventually kill large game. Sometimes a slower bullet w/ more mass and the correct construction can actually do a better job at certain distances.
I always use a 286gr 9.3 for an example. At 200 yards it has over 2100fpe, 300 yards..1700, 400 is 1450 which is on the lower side of what I feel comfortable w/ for Elk. The real down side is the bullet drop. 21 inches at 300 yards. Only 4" at 200. 55" at 400. The 130gr .270 maxs' at 400 yards. Where a 168gr .308 is about 25 yards behind. Bullet construction really plays into these statements.

This may or may not be true, but I think we are splitting hairs here. Take for example a .270 w/ a 140 bullet at 3090 fps and a .308 w/ a 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps and you have a toss up. In a normal hunting situation, I don't think that elk could tell the difference. Like Yogi Berra said, "They're the same, but different." If I wanted to use a .270 on elk, then I would use it. I wouldn't settle for the .308 when I really wanted a .270 just because of some slight advantages on paper that really make no difference anyway in the real world.
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