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Old 05-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #21
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Are these "facts" from your 25 years or whatever of scientific research or did you just copy a bunch of numbers from a loading manual? OK, I can get facts and figures from loading manuals too. You said that "Minumum sectional density for big game bullets by ethical hunters is .250." If you believe that this is true then you have to agree with the following. My Speer Loading Manual #10, on page 142 states that the 105 grain spitzer bullet has a sectional density (SD) of .254! As I recall, .254 is greater than .250. So, based on your own figures, the .243 is an acceptable, adequate and not marginal deer round, especially when used with the Speer 105 grain bullet as it exceeds the magic .250 SD number. So, now don't you agree or are you going to argue now with published facts and figures?
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Hey Cottontop. What's your take on .223 for whitetail deer? Is it unethical?
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:41 PM   #22
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Hey Cottontop. What's your take on .223 for whitetail deer? Is it unethical?

No, I don't think it is unethical at all. However, some states have set the minimum caliber for deer at .243/.244. Where it is legal, I see no problem with it as long as the hunter uses a good bullet at a minimum of 55 grains, and can place his/her shot in a vital area.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #23
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Both would be good target calibers and both would be more than capable of ethically taking deer sized game and in the case of the .243 bigger. Over the last 10-15yrs bullet companies have made some great advancements in bullet technology.

A 22-250 with a 1:10 twist can shoot 65-70gr bullets at very high velocity and 14-1500ft/lbs of energy. With bullets like Barnes, Hornady GMX, Nosler Partition, Sierra Gameking, Swift Scirrocco, its ability to take deer sized game is not a problem. There is also plenty of quality target bullets thatcan make 4-500yrd target shooting a lot of fun.

A .243 has even more choices for hunting deer sized game like Barnes, Berger, Hornady GMX, SST, Interbond, Nosler Partition, Accubond, E-Tip, Cor-Lokt Ultra Bonded, Sierra Gameking, Pro Hunter, Speer Deepcurl, Grandslam, and Swift. You get a little more range with the .243 IMHO for target shooting.

Either one would be a fine choice for target shooting and hunting if that is what your friend wanted.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:47 AM   #24
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Your definition of ethical is your opinion. If the (insert animal) dies quickly, I don't care. That's humane. That's ethical. I love all you old timers. You have preserved the sport of hunting for us newcomers. For that I thank you. But science and hunting don't go hand in hand. Hunting is primal. It is not something you can measure with your ballistics info. Again. All numbers mean nothing compared to a dead animal that dies within seconds of bullet impact. And with the advance in bullet technology, just about anything besides a .22LR can be used in the state I live in for any legal hunting.

I have dropped one deer in my life. Used .223 62gr Fusion round at about 60-70 yards. Went in left lung. Did not have an exit wound. Deer dropped within 15 yards. So I ask. How is that not humane? How is that not ethical?

Please explain.
Wrong again. This not my opinion but the opinion of MANY who came before me!!! I simple repeated it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:40 AM   #25
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Wrong again. This not my opinion but the opinion of MANY who came before me!!! I simple repeated it.
I agree back in when you were probably a kid/young adult, a .223 was probably not suitable for deer and would not do the job. But with advances in bullet technology, I think that does not apply anymore. You have your opinion. I have mine. I think as long as the animal does not suffer when shot, it doesn't matter what caliber.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:59 AM   #26
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The .243 Winchester is a far better round than the .22-250 is.....................

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Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 AM   #27
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Both would be good target calibers and both would be more than capable of ethically taking deer sized game and in the case of the .243 bigger. Over the last 10-15yrs bullet companies have made some great advancements in bullet technology.

A 22-250 with a 1:10 twist can shoot 65-70gr bullets at very high velocity and 14-1500ft/lbs of energy. With bullets like Barnes, Hornady GMX, Nosler Partition, Sierra Gameking, Swift Scirrocco, its ability to take deer sized game is not a problem. There is also plenty of quality target bullets thatcan make 4-500yrd target shooting a lot of fun.

A .243 has even more choices for hunting deer sized game like Barnes, Berger, Hornady GMX, SST, Interbond, Nosler Partition, Accubond, E-Tip, Cor-Lokt Ultra Bonded, Sierra Gameking, Pro Hunter, Speer Deepcurl, Grandslam, and Swift. You get a little more range with the .243 IMHO for target shooting.

Either one would be a fine choice for target shooting and hunting if that is what your friend wanted.
just where are you getting your data from? please post some links to reference your figures.

because most i see even with a 60 gr bullet are in the 1200-1300 FPS at the muzzle. and the only listings i can find for 65-70 gr bullets are in the reloading data, but doesn't show any ME numbers.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:53 AM   #28
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You may use what ever caliber your state allows. As for my self living in the Rocky Mtn, West we harvest more big game than other areas. If you have hunted big game you know perfect shot placement is never 100%. To state that some one fears their shot placement indicates in experience.
Anyone who has hunted big game knows you can not call an animals intent. The target often turns or moves as your trigger is pulled. Animals struck at angles require bullets of higher sectional density to penetrate ribs and to reach vital organs. The small bullets 6MM and smaller can not always be depended on to kill efficiently .

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Old 05-07-2013, 07:04 AM   #29
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You may use what ever caliber your state allows. As for my self living in the Rocky Mtn, West we harvest more big game than other areas. If you have hunted big game you know perfect shot placement is never 100%. To state that some one fears their shot placement indicates in experience.
Anyone who has hunted big game knows you can not call an animals intent. The target often turns or moves as your trigger is pulled. Animals struck at angles require bullets of higher sectional density to penetrate ribs and to reach vital organs. The small bullets 6MM and smaller can not always be depended on to kill efficiently .
Biggest game in KY is Whitetail Deer. Any caliber is legal. So .223/.243 does just fine.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:31 AM   #30
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The .243 Winchester is a far better round than the .22-250 is.....................
It is but the trouble is that the .243 suffers from mid calibre crisis in that it's bigger than the hot .22's but it's not as good performance wise as the .270,.308 and 30/06 but it still holds it's own in performances against long range rabbit busting and taking pigs and deer but it's just short of what the .30's and .27 cals can do.

This is 1 of those arguments that can go on for ages and ends up being a "agree to disagree" finish.
If you like either calibre use it and be happy in your decision.
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