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243 or 22-250


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Old 05-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #11
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I had a 22-250 which was an awesome gun (Rem 700 with a 22 inch full contour Douglas barrel and pillar bedded and floated stock (wood) with a 6.5x20 Leupold on it). I would shoot one hole 10 shot groups at 100 with about any load you would use. It was my go to prairie rat gun.
BUT the reason I ended up with it was because a good friend of mine had two of these guns built, one 22-250 and one in 243 for varmint shooting. Well after using both guns for about a year (he was into the 500+ yard shots) he elected to keep the 243 and sold me the 22-250. Now I have made MANY 500+ yd shot on the 'rats' with the 22-250 the 243 was a better choice for the real long shots. I know this because we hunted several times together. Out to about 400 yds you could not tell the difference as they both would vaporize the rats!!!
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:36 PM   #12
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Default .22-250?

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I had a 22-250 which was an awesome gun (Rem 700 with a 22 inch full contour Douglas barrel and pillar bedded and floated stock (wood) with a 6.5x20 Leupold on it). I would shoot one hole 10 shot groups at 100 with about any load you would use. It was my go to prairie rat gun.
BUT the reason I ended up with it was because a good friend of mine had two of these guns built, one 22-250 and one in 243 for varmint shooting. Well after using both guns for about a year (he was into the 500+ yard shots) he elected to keep the 243 and sold me the 22-250. Now I have made MANY 500+ yd shot on the 'rats' with the 22-250 the 243 was a better choice for the real long shots. I know this because we hunted several times together. Out to about 400 yds you could not tell the difference as they both would vaporize the rats!!!

Ever use the .22-250 on deer?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:03 AM   #13
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Ever use the .22-250 on deer?
ct
NO
I would NEVER use a varmint rifle for any big game hunting. I have to much respect of the animals!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:13 AM   #14
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NO
I would NEVER use a varmint rifle for any big game hunting. I have to much respect of the animals!
Or maybe you don't have confidence in your shot placement. Taken one and seen many deer taken by .223 Fusion rounds. Mine went 15 yards and dropped with no further movement. How is that not humane?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:23 AM   #15
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Or maybe you don't have confidence in your shot placement. Taken one and seen many deer taken by .223 Fusion rounds. Mine went 15 yards and dropped with no further movement. How is that not humane?
No, I have been doing ballistic research and testing for the last 25+ years so I use facts and logic rather than myth and emotion to decide which caliber/bullet to use on the game I hunt!!!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:28 AM   #16
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No, I have been doing ballistic research and testing for the last 25+ years so I use facts and logic rather than myth and emotion to decide which caliber/bullet to use on the game I hunt!!!
Roll your eyes all you want. And "no" to what? A well placed shot from a 22-250, .223 or .243 will kill a deer a lot quicker than a poor shot with a .30-30, .308 or .30-06. No emotion. No myth. Just a fact. Your science on the ballistics of a round mean nothing compared to the bucks mounted on the walls of me and my friends. And I'd say at least 5 were done with a 16" AR-15.

Only one getting emotional here is you.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:24 AM   #17
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Default Speer 70 grain.

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NO
I would NEVER use a varmint rifle for any big game hunting. I have to much respect of the animals!

With the proper bullets, that .22-250 is no longer a varmint round, but a bonafide deer round. Speer makes a 70 grain .224 bullet designed exclusively for deer hunting and the .22-250/.220 Swift type cartridges. In my .225 Ruger custom #1 single shot, this bullet is sub MOA accurate. I would not not hesitate in a second to use it for deer or wild hogs. Actually, the only thing that would hold me back from carrying it deer hunting is its weight because of the heavy target barrel, not the .225 cartridge w/ the 70 grain Speer.
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Last edited by cottontop; 05-06-2013 at 04:28 PM. Reason: meant to say 224 not 244
 
 
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:51 PM   #18
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OK lets talk FACTS:
223 70 gr SD .199 , 60 gr SD .171 Velocity 3000-3500 fps
243 100 gr SD .242, 90 gr SD .217 Velocity 3000+ fps

Minimum acceptable SD for big game bullets by ETHICAL hunters is .250.
Even with the best premium bullets penetration would be EXTREMELY limited, thus those who chose these 'little' guns/calibers to hunt big game MUST limit their shots to a perfect presentation as any quartering shot would only wound the game.
The high velocities will contribute to the rapid expansion (increase the probability of total bullet failure), thus lack of penetration.
They also have relatively low BC's so they lose their velocity much faster than the more appropriate bullets would so you MUST also limit the range you shoot.
Your arguments are made from a purely emotional mind set, just because it 'can' be done does not make it right.. Just because it is 'possible' does not mean it is 'probable'!
I have NEVER said you could not harvest a deer humanly with a 243 as long as you are willing to use the discipline REQUIRED to limit it use to small deer, perfect presentation, at limited ranges. Even then there is little to no room for mistakes or misjudgement on the hunters part.
NOW the point I have repeatedly made is:
These little gun/calibers are not recommended for the average and/or beginning hunters. They are the ones who do not have the understanding of the limitations and the discipline to operate within these limitations so it is just common sense not to set them up for failure and to increase the probability of wounding/losing animals .
This is especially true because there is no NEED for hunters of small stature to use these 'little' gun/calibers when there are MUCH BETTER options out there. The recoil, which is a prime consideration of small/beginning hunters, difference between a 260/7-08 and 243/223 is so slight, but the terminal performance to the 260/7-08 is FAR better than the 243/223.
AGAIN NUFF SAID!!!
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau
OK lets talk FACTS:
223 70 gr SD .199 , 60 gr SD .171 Velocity 3000-3500 fps
243 100 gr SD .242, 90 gr SD .217 Velocity 3000+ fps

Minimum acceptable SD for big game bullets by ETHICAL hunters is .250.
Even with the best premium bullets penetration would be EXTREMELY limited, thus those who chose these 'little' guns/calibers to hunt big game MUST limit their shots to a perfect presentation as any quartering shot would only wound the game.
The high velocities will contribute to the rapid expansion (increase the probability of total bullet failure), thus lack of penetration.
They also have relatively low BC's so they lose their velocity much faster than the more appropriate bullets would so you MUST also limit the range you shoot.
Your arguments are made from a purely emotional mind set, just because it 'can' be done does not make it right.. Just because it is 'possible' does not mean it is 'probable'!
I have NEVER said you could not harvest a deer humanly with a 243 as long as you are willing to use the discipline REQUIRED to limit it use to small deer, perfect presentation, at limited ranges. Even then there is little to no room for mistakes or misjudgement on the hunters part.
NOW the point I have repeatedly made is:
These little gun/calibers are not recommended for the average and/or beginning hunters. They are the ones who do not have the understanding of the limitations and the discipline to operate within these limitations so it is just common sense not to set them up for failure and to increase the probability of wounding/losing animals .
This is especially true because there is no NEED for hunters of small stature to use these 'little' gun/calibers when there are MUCH BETTER options out there. The recoil, which is a prime consideration of small/beginning hunters, difference between a 260/7-08 and 243/223 is so slight, but the terminal performance to the 260/7-08 is FAR better than the 243/223.
AGAIN NUFF SAID!!!
Your definition of ethical is your opinion. If the (insert animal) dies quickly, I don't care. That's humane. That's ethical. I love all you old timers. You have preserved the sport of hunting for us newcomers. For that I thank you. But science and hunting don't go hand in hand. Hunting is primal. It is not something you can measure with your ballistics info. Again. All numbers mean nothing compared to a dead animal that dies within seconds of bullet impact. And with the advance in bullet technology, just about anything besides a .22LR can be used in the state I live in for any legal hunting.

I have dropped one deer in my life. Used .223 62gr Fusion round at about 60-70 yards. Went in left lung. Did not have an exit wound. Deer dropped within 15 yards. So I ask. How is that not humane? How is that not ethical?

Please explain.
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Last edited by Squawk; 05-06-2013 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:06 PM   #20
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Default no, not "nuff" said just yet.

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Originally Posted by JimRau View Post
OK lets talk FACTS:
223 70 gr SD .199 , 60 gr SD .171 Velocity 3000-3500 fps
243 100 gr SD .242, 90 gr SD .217 Velocity 3000+ fps

Minimum acceptable SD for big game bullets by ETHICAL hunters is .250.
Even with the best premium bullets penetration would be EXTREMELY limited, thus those who chose these 'little' guns/calibers to hunt big game MUST limit their shots to a perfect presentation as any quartering shot would only wound the game.
The high velocities will contribute to the rapid expansion (increase the probability of total bullet failure), thus lack of penetration.
They also have relatively low BC's so they lose their velocity much faster than the more appropriate bullets would so you MUST also limit the range you shoot.
Your arguments are made from a purely emotional mind set, just because it 'can' be done does not make it right.. Just because it is 'possible' does not mean it is 'probable'!
I have NEVER said you could not harvest a deer humanly with a 243 as long as you are willing to use the discipline REQUIRED to limit it use to small deer, perfect presentation, at limited ranges. Even then there is little to no room for mistakes or misjudgement on the hunters part.
NOW the point I have repeatedly made is:
These little gun/calibers are not recommended for the average and/or beginning hunters. They are the ones who do not have the understanding of the limitations and the discipline to operate within these limitations so it is just common sense not to set them up for failure and to increase the probability of wounding/losing animals .
This is especially true because there is no NEED for hunters of small stature to use these 'little' gun/calibers when there are MUCH BETTER options out there. The recoil, which is a prime consideration of small/beginning hunters, difference between a 260/7-08 and 243/223 is so slight, but the terminal performance to the 260/7-08 is FAR better than the 243/223.
AGAIN NUFF SAID!!!

Are these "facts" from your 25 years or whatever of scientific research or did you just copy a bunch of numbers from a loading manual? OK, I can get facts and figures from loading manuals too. You said that "Minumum sectional density for big game bullets by ethical hunters is .250." If you believe that this is true then you have to agree with the following. My Speer Loading Manual #10, on page 142 states that the .243 105 grain spitzer bullet has a sectional density (SD) of .254! As I recall, .254 is greater than .250. So, based on your own figures, the .243 is an acceptable, adequate and not marginal deer round, especially when used with the Speer 105 grain bullet as it exceeds your magic .250 SD number. So, now don't you agree that the .243 is an adequate deer round and a good choice for deer or are you going to argue now with published facts and figures?
ct

Last edited by cottontop; 05-06-2013 at 07:07 PM. Reason: spelling
 
 
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