Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > .22 Hornet .vs. .223 Remington

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Old 05-05-2014, 01:31 AM   #21
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The Hornet was a nice little cartridge. Emphasis on little. Reloading is awkward due to size. Lighter bullets than the .223 or 22-250- around 750-800 ft lbs. The .223 is about 1100-1200 ft lbs, and the 22-250 about 1700.

The .22-250 can reach around 4000 fps, and is a great long range varmint round (altho I prefer my old .220 Swift for Groundhogs and Prairie Dogs)

I really would look hard at the .223- fits what you want, will be a LOT cheaper to shoot, and there are several very good heavy barreled bolt guns out there- and Savage has been making better guns than they get credit for.

And yes, there IS something about walnut and blued steel. But synthetics don't warp due to humidity, and can be bedded better (IMHO)
Thanks for all of the info. The .223 is what I'm leaning towards. My farthest shots will probably 250 yards, so I'd rather go with the walnut since I don't need anything really fancy.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:17 AM   #22
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I'll have to look at the walnut ones. I'm not a big fan of laminate on most guns but I may like them too.
Boyd's makes both Walnut and Laminate stocks. You will be limited in the design with a Walnut stock from them,but it all depends on the style you want. I have several Boyd's laminate stocks on different calibers,they are outstanding stocks,and with a Laminate stock,you don't have the problems associated with solid wood stocks from getting wet or high humidity.

I agree with others as for going with a 223. Now,decide on the type of hunting you are planning on.
I love heavy barreled rifles,and unless you're going to be hiking up a mountain,the extra weight isn't a problem with a good rifle sling.
I prefer to get a 223 with a 1-8 or 1-9 twist rate. They will allow you to shoot a wider selection of bullet weights accurately. Some mfg's still sell 223 caliber rifles with a 1-12 twist rate,and it will limit you to the lighter weight bullets.
There's also nothing wrong with a sporter weight barreled rifle,but accuracy will be affected faster from the barrel heating up with multiple shots.

For a Savage,a Model 10 or 12 is what I'd suggest,but they will run you a bit more than $500 for a new rifle,and these would be with a composite factory stock that IMO,needs to be thrown in the trash,so add another $100-150 for a Boyd's stock to the price.
Actually,almost all "Factory" composite stocks are junk,and need to be replaced. They all flex and touch the barrel,so no matter what brand you decide on,if it has a factory composite stock,it will surely need to be upgraded to improve the accuracy of the rifle in the real world.
Most heavy barreled rifles that come with a decent stock on them will cost $750+ no matter the mfg.
Personally,I'd stay away from the entry level models like the Savage Axis,Ruger American,Remington 770/783. You get what you pay for,and with these you don't get much.Plus the aftermarket really doesn't supply many options for most of them if you want to change stuff on them.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:23 AM   #23
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Different 223 rifles have different rates of twist. 1:12 twist will not stabilize much over 55 grain bullets and some wont do that. A twist rate of 1:9 is a good all around rate as it will stabilize 45-65 grain bullets. I know the Savage has a 1:9 twist. I bought one for one of my grandsons and it was MOA or less with 55 grain hand loads. It did OK on 45 grain factory varmint rounds also. I have a Mossberg MVP heavy sporter 20" barrel and a laminate stock. It is not as smooth as some but it takes AR mags. It has a 1:9 twist. It is chambered for 5.56x45 not 223 but will shoot 223 just fine. It will shoot sub MOA with the right ammo. My SIL sold his Rem 700 (1:12) because it would not shoot up with the Savage 10.

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Old 05-05-2014, 03:49 AM   #24
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Boyd's makes both Walnut and Laminate stocks. You will be limited in the design with a Walnut stock from them,but it all depends on the style you want. I have several Boyd's laminate stocks on different calibers,they are outstanding stocks,and with a Laminate stock,you don't have the problems associated with solid wood stocks from getting wet or high humidity.

I agree with others as for going with a 223. Now,decide on the type of hunting you are planning on.
I love heavy barreled rifles,and unless you're going to be hiking up a mountain,the extra weight isn't a problem with a good rifle sling.
I prefer to get a 223 with a 1-8 or 1-9 twist rate. They will allow you to shoot a wider selection of bullet weights accurately. Some mfg's still sell 223 caliber rifles with a 1-12 twist rate,and it will limit you to the lighter weight bullets.
There's also nothing wrong with a sporter weight barreled rifle,but accuracy will be affected faster from the barrel heating up with multiple shots.

For a Savage,a Model 10 or 12 is what I'd suggest,but they will run you a bit more than $500 for a new rifle,and these would be with a composite factory stock that IMO,needs to be thrown in the trash,so add another $100-150 for a Boyd's stock to the price.
Actually,almost all "Factory" composite stocks are junk,and need to be replaced. They all flex and touch the barrel,so no matter what brand you decide on,if it has a factory composite stock,it will surely need to be upgraded to improve the accuracy of the rifle in the real world.
Most heavy barreled rifles that come with a decent stock on them will cost $750+ no matter the mfg.
Personally,I'd stay away from the entry level models like the Savage Axis,Ruger American,Remington 770/783. You get what you pay for,and with these you don't get much.Plus the aftermarket really doesn't supply many options for most of them if you want to change stuff on them.
Thanks a lot for all of this information. I'm really new to centerfire bolt guns and shooting at distances than 100 yards. I said early that my shots could be around 250-300 but that was being generous. I really want something flatter shooting, with more distance capability, and more economical to shoot that my .30-30.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:51 AM   #25
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The .223 is a much better chose than the .22 Hornet !.................

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Old 05-05-2014, 03:53 AM   #26
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Different 223 rifles have different rates of twist. 1:12 twist will not stabilize much over 55 grain bullets and some wont do that. A twist rate of 1:9 is a good all around rate as it will stabilize 45-65 grain bullets. I know the Savage has a 1:9 twist. I bought one for one of my grandsons and it was MOA or less with 55 grain hand loads. It did OK on 45 grain factory varmint rounds also. I have a Mossberg MVP heavy sporter 20" barrel and a laminate stock. It is not as smooth as some but it takes AR mags. It has a 1:9 twist. It is chambered for 5.56x45 not 223 but will shoot 223 just fine. It will shoot sub MOA with the right ammo. My SIL sold his Rem 700 (1:12) because it would not shoot up with the Savage 10.
Thanks, I'm really new to this type of shooting. No one I know around here does much long range shooting and .22 caliber centerfires are illegal for big game here so not many people use them. For the most part, .30-30 and .44 mag leveractions are king around here.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:56 AM   #27
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Winchester94,If you don't reload,most factory ammo that you will find for a 223 will be 55-60 grain bullets unless you buy the heavier "Match" bullets. The Hornady V-Max and Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are bad medicine on yotes,and other varmints out to 400-500 yards as long as there's not a stiff wind blowing.
If you aren't planning on shooting a lot at one time,a sporter barreled rifle will work just fine.
Tikka,Thompson Center,Winchester,Howa/Weatherby Vanguard,Savage,Remington,Marlin,Browning,Ruger,CZ-USA,and others make great rifles today. Just find one that you like,with the right barrel twist rate,and you'll be just fine. Also,Don't be afraid of buying any of these rifle's used. You can find some great deals if you look hard enough.
Everyone has some sort of miracle trigger out today,but some of the older ones are adjustable,and there are plenty of great aftermarket triggers made for most models.

I bought my Savage 12 FLVSS used for $350,changed out the stock,installed a great trigger,and put quality optics/rings/and base on it. It'll shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards all day long if I do my part,but usually shoots (I) around 1/2" with the human factor involved. I have around $1K total in this rifle,and it's a varmint/target killing machine.



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Old 05-05-2014, 02:24 PM   #28
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Winchester94,If you don't reload,most factory ammo that you will find for a 223 will be 55-60 grain bullets unless you buy the heavier "Match" bullets. The Hornady V-Max and Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are bad medicine on yotes,and other varmints out to 400-500 yards as long as there's not a stiff wind blowing.
If you aren't planning on shooting a lot at one time,a sporter barreled rifle will work just fine.
Tikka,Thompson Center,Winchester,Howa/Weatherby Vanguard,Savage,Remington,Marlin,Browning,Ruger,CZ-USA,and others make great rifles today. Just find one that you like,with the right barrel twist rate,and you'll be just fine. Also,Don't be afraid of buying any of these rifle's used. You can find some great deals if you look hard enough.
Everyone has some sort of miracle trigger out today,but some of the older ones are adjustable,and there are plenty of great aftermarket triggers made for most models.

I bought my Savage 12 FLVSS used for $350,changed out the stock,installed a great trigger,and put quality optics/rings/and base on it. It'll shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yards all day long if I do my part,but usually shoots (I) around 1/2" with the human factor involved. I have around $1K total in this rifle,and it's a varmint/target killing machine.



I really love the look of CZ rifles and Winchesters have always been my favorite but they both seem to have a pricetag double what I can afford. I'm mostly gonna be looking at the Marlin and Savage I think. I'm definitely not against buying used, I've only ever had one brand new gun in the 19 years I've been alive.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:28 PM   #29
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The Savages are great rifles. I know you didn't mention single shots but a friend has an H&R with a bull barrel in .223. After a trigger job the rifle is dead nuts accurate. I believe he has a Nikon Monarch on it with a good set of mounts.

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Old 05-05-2014, 03:44 PM   #30
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Look into the howa rifles too. From what I understand they are built on old weatherby (spelling) machines. They offer a really nice 223 in a hogue stock that shoots really well. Any of the manufacturers you've listed will be fine, but the howas look really nice sitting in that hogue stock. I had one and it was a great shooter.

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