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Old 08-26-2013, 03:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by CrazedJava View Post
My experience is not hearsay. I've actually fired it.

Horrible gun. If you want an Umarex, the S&W M&P22 is great and it's full size unlike the Mosquito. For the same price you can get the Ruger SR22, which I have not fired but keep hearing great things about and would drop the money on in a heartbeat. There are also lots of positive press around the GSG 1911-22 which I think is an ATI gun in the States(?).

I rented a Mosquito and the range does a really good job on maintenance. The Mosquito is out for maintenance A LOT. In fact it took my three tries to rent it. I was actually shooting one day and someone was using it and jamming constantly. You are required to use range ammo when you rent there so I went with what they recommended. Jammed about every 3 shots. I did manage to get 5 in a row before a jam. Never fired a full magazine without some sort of problem.

Folks, that is ridiculous.

Also, it was inaccurate. I couldn't believe how bad it shot. I was trying out a Bersa Thunder .380 on the same day. First time to fire both weapons. The Bersa was doing great, the Mosquito looked like I was shooting a shotgun...at 50 yards...blindfolded. If I hadn't been shooting the Bersa as comparison I would have thought maybe it was me and I should give up shooting. I've never fired any .22 as inaccurate as this one. Could be the that individual gun, but hard to believe they would not have swapped it out by now and I know it's gone for repairs three times now.

I liked the mini-P226 feel of it and controls. It COULD be such an awesome little gun but there is no way I would tell anyone to buy one of these. Ammo pickiness is not a virtue in my book anyway, especially with the ongoing shortage. Why people put up with guns that will only shoot select brands is beyond me.
So in other words, you didn't spec the ammo for the gun. You just used what they gave you. Nor did you check to see if the proper spring was in place for the ammo speed used? (Saw nothing to indicate a check...)

And therefore, you didn't "condition" yourself to operate within design parameters of the gun?

And because of that, the gun is bad?

Furthermore, I visit several shops in the East Bay and South Bay of the the SF Bay Area...except for sales, the SR-22 is always 30.00-50.00 more - pushing about 390.00 out the door - and of course the M&P 22 and P22 run about 450.00 and close to 500.00 out the door.

You need to be careful about apples and oranges comparison not just on what the gun can do - but also on price.

For their price range, the SR-22s, M&P 22s, Buckmarks and MK's shoot everything in one configuration for 330.00 - 450.00

For their price range, the Mosquito shoots everything in TWO configurations for about 290.00.

For their price range, the Phoenix Arms HP22A shoots only one speed range in one configuration - for 130.00-160.00.

Part of the responsibility of being an owner OF ANY TOOL is that you read the manual, understand the design specs and intended range of purpose it was built for - and then adjust accordingly for reliable and consistent operation of the tool in question.

I actually read the manuals that come with firearms - and if I'm not satisfied - I pick up the phone....

I don't demand my table saw to do something it wasn't designed for. And even if I did - I wouldn't blame it should something go wrong. The blame would reside in me the owner and operator.

=8-)
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:27 PM   #22
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i actually own one.

mine cycles just fine but then thats not the issue i have. its the incredibly poor trigger the over application of ridiculous safeties and none of it can be modded to make it into a functional useful gun.

the sig mosquito is a total POS from the ground up and i can hardley understand why sig wants its name attached to such a total POS.

my wife got it for me for my birthday years ago because it was pink and she knew i liked sigs. the ONLY reason i dont get rid of it is because it was the first gun she ever bought and she gave it to me... i hold out some hope someday i can turn it into a functional firearm.
No doubt, the trigger is not one you would want to use for example in competitive shooting. It's a plinker's trigger at best.

Don't like the safeties - don't blame it on Sig Sauer. Blame it on CA, CA-DOJ an CA-AG. Please folks - put the blame where it belongs.

POS? That's harsh. It is a very well built gun - requires no finish work like with the much cheaper Phoenix Arms HP22A. For the price paid, the Mosquito is what you pay for - a mid-priced firearm that uses two configurations to shoot standard velocity and high velocity unlike it pricier neighbors that shoot both ranges in one configuration.

My only two "real" beefs or negative with the Sig Mosquito are:

1. A little "zeal" when tapping the magazine in can cause the slide to inadvertently close.

I don't want a firearm doing anything unless I have commanded it to do so.


2. Because of the proximity of the slide release, it's not that hard to inadvertently trigger it - once again causing the slide to close when you didn't intend to close it.


Why would Sig want their name on it?

Perhaps so they can offer a decent pistol for the price charged to those folks who like to shoot .22LR?

=8-)
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:37 PM   #23
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So in other words, you didn't spec the ammo for the gun. You just used what they gave you. Nor did you check to see if the proper spring was in place for the ammo speed used? (Saw nothing to indicate a check...)

And therefore, you didn't "condition" yourself to operate within design parameters of the gun?

And because of that, the gun is bad?
The range operators know their stuff and they are picky about what ammo they give you. They match ammo to the gun. Not just caliber but brand and you have to use what they give you.

Also, even without reliability issues, it was inaccurate.

Why should the spring matter? I own a Beretta NEOS and it will shoot and cycle anything. The NEOS is also cheaper than the Mosquito. For the price range, which really is anywhere to $250 to $400, you have a large selection of firearms that shoot more accurately and shoot reliably. I also fired the M&P 22, also made by Umarex, with no issues and it was decently accurate. I wouldn't put it up against a Buckmark or my NEOS, but I did decent with it and had ZERO issues.

It is not a virtue of the weapon if it is not simple to operate. In most machines those would be called design defects. I used to own a car that worked just fine if you made sure it warmed up for 10 minutes and added coolant to it every week. If someone else stalled out the car I wouldn't claim it was because they were a bad driver.

.22 Autos already have a reputation for being unreliable. I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I am asking that the gun put bullets somewhere close to where I aim and that I have a reasonable chance of it going "bang" when I pull the trigger.

"Conditioning" myself to fire the weapon? Really?
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CrazedJava View Post
The range operators know their stuff and they are picky about what ammo they give you. They match ammo to the gun. Not just caliber but brand and you have to use what they give you.

Also, even without reliability issues, it was inaccurate.

Why should the spring matter? I own a Beretta NEOS and it will shoot and cycle anything. The NEOS is also cheaper than the Mosquito. For the price range, which really is anywhere to $250 to $400, you have a large selection of firearms that shoot more accurately and shoot reliably. I also fired the M&P 22, also made by Umarex, with no issues and it was decently accurate. I wouldn't put it up against a Buckmark or my NEOS, but I did decent with it and had ZERO issues.

It is not a virtue of the weapon if it is not simple to operate. In most machines those would be called design defects. I used to own a car that worked just fine if you made sure it warmed up for 10 minutes and added coolant to it every week. If someone else stalled out the car I wouldn't claim it was because they were a bad driver.

.22 Autos already have a reputation for being unreliable. I'm not asking for 100% reliability. I am asking that the gun put bullets somewhere close to where I aim and that I have a reasonable chance of it going "bang" when I pull the trigger.

"Conditioning" myself to fire the weapon? Really?
The Phoenix Arms HP22A:

FPS = 1050-1150 (Website)
Profile = Round Nose
Treatment = Lead

Shooter is handed a box of Remington Subsonic 1050 fps 36 gr. Hollow Point

Shooter complains about occasional jams on the basis of FTE. Shooter is observed shooting one handed.

Is this a case of:

1. Design defects.
2. Possible limp-wristed shooting.
3. Ammunition defects.
4. Failure to operate tool within design parameters.
5. #1 and #3
6. #2 and #4


=8-)


Furthermore, the Sig Mosquito has two springs. The default is provided for high velocity ammunition. The optional and included spring is for standard velocity ammunition. That is simply the design of the firearm.

Sig Sauer is not holding a gun to your head and saying:

"You have to buy the Sig Mosquito or else!"

That's your choice. Once you purchase ANY firearm however - it is YOUR responsibility to adjust your habits (also known as conditioned response) in order to successful utilize that firearm.

Now if you do exactly that - properly maintain the firearm, use the proper ammunition, use the proper configuration for that ammunition (if required) and use the proper actions to fire the firearm...

...and it fails...then you can start taking a serious look at the possibility of a defect in the firearm or ammunition.

=8-)

For example, when I was first trying out my Henry AR-7, I was about to start making windage adjustments on the front blade because my 8" groups were consistently about 3-4 inches right and down of POA.

An older gentleman next to me suggested that before I do so - perhaps I should examine myself first. He picked up the rifle - checked it out for a minute - and then made two suggestions:

1. He pointed out the light weight and advised a very firm brace and cheek plant.

2. He advised a firm last-three-finger + thumb grip before pulling the trigger.

Result:

My group tightened up to about 3-4" at 50 yards and moved up and very close to center.

I was blaming the firearm. He merely pointed out that it was the other way around.

=8-)
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #25
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I have never heard of a Mosquito that ran smooth. All of them, including the one I use to own, have had issues.

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Old 08-26-2013, 04:41 PM   #26
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I just bought a Mosquito even after reading all the bad things being said about them. I know from past experience with the P238 and P938 that a lot of the so called problems are caused by the shooter and not the gun. The store owner told me that it would only shoot 2 brands of ammo. I ordered CCI to shoot in it and it hasn't come in yet. After doing more reading and research I have found out that it will shoot pretty much any brand ammo except the cheap crap bargain ammo. The gun seems like it has been shot very little. I took it apart and cleaned it up. It showed no signs of ever being oiled or greased and it was bone dry. The recoil spring was installed backwards in the gun also. I am sure whoever got rid of this gun is sure that it is a POS just as I am sure they were an idiot that had no business with a gun. I have not shot the gun yet but I have all the faith in the world that the gun will shoot and operate fine. I will post more after I shoot it.

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Old 08-26-2013, 04:53 PM   #27
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I just bought a Mosquito even after reading all the bad things being said about them. I know from past experience with the P238 and P938 that a lot of the so called problems are caused by the shooter and not the gun. The store owner told me that it would only shoot 2 brands of ammo. I ordered CCI to shoot in it and it hasn't come in yet. After doing more reading and research I have found out that it will shoot pretty much any brand ammo except the cheap crap bargain ammo. The gun seems like it has been shot very little. I took it apart and cleaned it up. It showed no signs of ever being oiled or greased and it was bone dry. The recoil spring was installed backwards in the gun also. I am sure whoever got rid of this gun is sure that it is a POS just as I am sure they were an idiot that had no business with a gun. I have not shot the gun yet but I have all the faith in the world that the gun will shoot and operate fine. I will post more after I shoot it.
Don't mean to pile on you - trying my best not to...

Sig Sauer says to clean BUT leave dry the ejector pin. In other words lubricate all the other usual suspects - but no the ejector pin.

Ammo:

Fiocchi FHVCRN (High Velocity Copper Plated Round Nose)
CCI Mini-Mags (High Velocity Copper Plated Round Nose)
...
...

I'm sure you get the pattern...1235 fps - 1260 fps CPLRN.

Watch out for that slide - I bet at least once when you insert the magazine - it'll inadvertently close on you.

Otherwise, have fun...

=8-)
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:55 PM   #28
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You're coming at this from the wrong angle. The problem is indeed the gun.

I fired a Bersa Thunder the same day. The Bersa had no issues and is also a straight blowback design. I have fired many types of handguns. I have never had an issue with limp-wristing but I've had to correct it in others. Frankly, I've never heard of anyone having trouble limp-wristing a .22 auto. It still would not account for the number of failures I was having.

I used to own an unreliable .22 auto. A S&W M22A. Even it could occasionally get through an entire magazine without issue.

The problem though is this. Your average gun buyer is not going to deeply research their choice. You can hem and haw and critique them for it, but people make high dollar purchases all the time without doing much research. Part of this is that in our wonderful modern society most devices we purchase just work. It gives people this odd expectation that when they plunk down money what they purchase will work right out of the box.

If I can purchase a large number of other handguns that just work right out of the box, that are less picky on ammo, and more accurate, that means the one that does NONE of these things is poorly designed, has poor quality control, or both.

I find it difficult to blame the operator when they had other choices that work just as well. I don't consider a Phoenix anything to be a good comparison. You are talking about an even cheaper weapon in a lower class.

If I were a Mosquito OWNER and you were telling me it's my fault the gun has to have a certain spring and I can only shoot mini-mags, also that the moon needs to be a in a certain phase and it's all my fault that I don't love the gun properly so it's going to punish me for my insolence and I see a guy at the range with a Ruger SR22 blowing through Federal Cheapo and actually hitting his target I'm going to suspect maybe it's not me that is the problem.

I expect operator error to be I flinched and missed, or my hands were shaky because I have low blood sugar, or sleep deprivation, or I didn't seat the magazine properly, or I didn't pull the slide back far enough and the round didn't properly go into battery, etc. etc.

In other words, an operator error should be because of something the operator did improperly.

If I do everything properly but the gun doesn't work because of some esoteric rule specific to its make, maybe the gun is poorly designed?

As I said, I used what the range gave me. Incidentally they were high velocity rounds, lead nose, not hollow-points.

You keep saying operator error but the factors you are pointing to are not an issue in other firearms. You are correct that you should optimize how you use your weapon but circumstances cannot always be optimal. A good firearm works and works well even when circumstances are not optimal.

A weapon that still does not work well even when circumstances are optimal is not a good weapon.

Incidentally, I am not arguing with you about the "proper" way to use a Mosquito. You are probably correct. My disagreement is that it needs those rules in the first place. That is ridiculous.

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Old 08-26-2013, 06:52 PM   #29
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Furthermore, I visit several shops in the East Bay and South Bay of the the SF Bay Area...except for sales, the SR-22 is always 30.00-50.00 more - pushing about 390.00 out the door - and of course the M&P 22 and P22 run about 450.00 and close to 500.00 out the door.
For what it's worth my LGS, which is about an hour and a half south of the Bay Area, has had at least one, sometimes two, M&P22s for sale for $350 everyone I've gone in there in the last six months.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:39 PM   #30
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For what it's worth my LGS, which is about an hour and a half south of the Bay Area, has had at least one, sometimes two, M&P22s for sale for $350 everyone I've gone in there in the last six months.
I've been shopping around...the last 60 days roughly...I try to stick to LBSes....

What I'm seeing consistently is:

1. Sig Mosquito 290.00+
2. SR-22 320.00-330.00+ (until recently - go to hell CA AG DOJ, etc.)
3. S&W 22A ^^^
4. M&P 22 400.00-450.00
5. Walther P22 450.00

...and that's IF they even have 'em in stock or on display. I'd swear I spend more time at the range testing folks "display pieces" than at the LBS. It's been that bad.

I've been tempted to purchase off Bud's Gun Shop and ship and transfer an S&W 22A starting at 270.00 an eventually finish out at about an even 400.00 here in California - but the folks at the ranges say it everytime:

"Dude! If you are going to pay that much - get the M&P 22. It's just an all around better gun!!!"

But I don't want to spend that much.

I went with the Sig Mosquito - am very impressed with it - other than the slide issue - and I'm getting another one as a backup because of the CA AG crap.

Here's the thing. The previous poster mentioned the Bersa Thunder.

THAT WAS MY NUMBER ONE CHOICE!!!

But we all know why that's not a choice in California...

Here's a question for all. I've seen, picked up, and fondled the P22 listed at 450.00 at an LBS. That thing is damn tiny. Yet from appearances seems to be the complete package along the lines of the SR-22 and the M&P 22 other than size.

Is there a reason it is not as "hot" an item as those other two?

=8-)
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