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-   -   Gunvault Speedsafe and biometric opinions? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f171/gunvault-speedsafe-biometric-opinions-74943/)

miles_fan 10-24-2012 04:33 AM

Gunvault Speedsafe and biometric opinions?
 
I have a Gunvault bolted behind the headboard and it is a three second affair for me to contort a bit, push the buttons, and have my home defense revolver in hand. But my wife never seems to be able to manipulate the push buttons effectively or at least not in an amount of time that would be acceptable if necessary while I'm away on business.

So my question is if anyone has direct experience with the biometric Gunvault options, specifically the Mini or the newer Speedsafe biometric?

I realize these are not safes but simple lock boxes, so this isn't about fire proofing or even burglar proofing, just about quick access by my significant other.

FAS1 10-24-2012 11:04 PM

It seems like inexpensive biometrics can be finicky. Works well for some and not very good for others. A lot of variables that can make a difference like sweat and dry or oily skin.
I think it's one of those things that if you are OK with having electronics then you just need to try it to make sure it reads her print reliably and that you can return it if not satisfied.

miles_fan 10-25-2012 02:36 AM

You're probably right. I will definitely test either extensively when I get it. The SpeedSafe newer case appears more ergonomic but less substantial. I will probably opt for the older Mini and then have her run it many times until we bolt it down.

JeffCooper 10-27-2012 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles_fan
You're probably right. I will definitely test either extensively when I get it. The SpeedSafe newer case appears more ergonomic but less substantial. I will probably opt for the older Mini and then have her run it many times until we bolt it down.

I have three Gunvault safes - one biometric, two push button jobs. Ive spoken to Gunvault a couple of times about the biometric. Here are my gripes:

1. It very rarely opens on the first try. Sometimes it takes 3-4 tries.
2. You cant turn off the beep. This a problem because for each try (see above), you push the button to light the reader...and it beeps when you do. 3-4 tries in and any intruder is going to come looking for the source. Bang, Im dead. Prolly my wife too. Not what I paid $250ish for.
3. The bio safe comes with a wall wart, but if you plug it in, you cant have a battery in. If you lose power, your done without a key. So I run on a battery. What a waste.
4. Less of a gripe and more of a best practice thing. When the thing finally opens, the door slams open and makes a lot of racket. You get used to catching with a finger.

I have the same safe with push buttons on my boat. Works first time every time. I can turn the beep off. No wall wart, but the batts last forever (two years so far. My favorite is my newest, which takes the place of my bio safe. It holds one pistol and mounts on the side of my night start. A couple of button pushes and Ive got my 1911 in my hand. Flick the safety, and a BG is goung to have a hole in him.

Anyway, if you need a small safe, get the combo type and save yourself a pile of dough. I continue to try to get Gunvault to take back the bio and ship me out even ONE combo safe in exchange. No dice at this time. I will keep trying.

buckhorn_cortez 10-27-2012 02:37 PM

There is a measurement in identity verification, especially biometrics, called the "equal error rate" or EER. The EER is when false rejects are the same as false acceptances. Obviously, you want the lowest measurement possible as you don't want a false reject or a false acceptance.

For comparison - hand geometry readers and iris scanners run about a 0.004% EER. On a good day a fingerprint reader is about 5%. The more you set the device to eliminate false acceptances - the higher the reject rate for a valid fingerprint. So, if you set it to get the false acceptance to something like 0.1% - the false reject rate goes up to about 30%.

From what you're describing as having to try 3-4 times, the manufacturer has set the fingerprint read to template comparison threshold to favor a lower false acceptance rate - nothing you can do about that - it's the nature of fingerprint readers.

JeffCooper 10-28-2012 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez
There is a measurement in identity verification, especially biometrics, called the "equal error rate" or EER. The EER is when false rejects are the same as false acceptances. Obviously, you want the lowest measurement possible as you don't want a false reject or a false acceptance.

For comparison - hand geometry readers and iris scanners run about a 0.004% EER. On a good day a fingerprint reader is about 5%. The more you set the device to eliminate false acceptances - the higher the reject rate for a valid fingerprint. So, if you set it to get the false acceptance to something like 0.1% - the false reject rate goes up to about 30%.

From what you're describing as having to try 3-4 times, the manufacturer has set the fingerprint read to template comparison threshold to favor a lower false acceptance rate - nothing you can do about that - it's the nature of fingerprint readers.

Excellent data. Thanks for sharing! (I just know GunVault hasnt gotten it right yet)

buckhorn_cortez 10-28-2012 03:09 AM

The latest development in finger scanners is to read the blood vessel pattern in the finger instead of making a template of the arches, loops, and whorls for a fingerprint. One of the problems with a fingerprint template is the size of the template required to make an accurate reading. The second problem is in the method of detecting the fingerprint. A number of methods have been tried, and none of them result in a low EER or reliable system as the condition of the platen itself (clean, dirty, dusty, etc.) influences the accuracy of the comparison against the template.

Is that a whorl or a piece of lint? You get the idea. The blood vessel pattern doesn't change and the template is far smaller. The problem is the technology requires an infrared light source to illuminate the blood vessel (blood reflects the IR light), and then you need a small camera to capture the image.

I'm sure, as with all technology, in 2-3 years if the technology proves popular, the manufacturers will contract for special solid state sensors to make the units smaller - but today, they rely on a camera instead of a dedicated sensor. While you can fit a camera into a cell phone, the IR sensitive image sensors are larger than the visible light sensors used in phones.

The manufacturers try to use commercially available hardware to keep costs down - which, in turn, drives the overall size of the current offerings in finger blood vessel detection devices.

Old_Crow 10-28-2012 05:16 AM

Women use a lot more hand creams and skin conditioners than men. Her fingerprint changes as the oil is absorbed by the skin. Perhaps you just need another system that is more lady friendly. Oils naturally attract lint, just putting her hand on the bedspread is enough to change her fingerprint to an electronic reader.

georgetodhy 11-05-2012 06:01 AM

I have biometric gun safe it works absolutely fine with me. I too have a similar experience, finger print recognition does not work properly for my wife. I thought the problem would be with be recognition system. Could anyone please produce some attachments regarding tips for maintaince.

zombiehunter 11-09-2012 10:55 PM

I have a gun vault. I wanted the combo one, but I just got the bio one instead. My wife and I have no problem with it reading for the most part but the issue is that it doesn't open every time. I can hear it unlock but the latch doesn't release the spring door every time.

I called gun vault and the guy told me to take a hammer and tap the latch part that is part of the door downward to bend it a little. I was kinda bummed that I had to take a hammer to it to get it to work properly. I did it and it worked for awhile and it started it again. I changed the battery out in it and it worked perfect for about two weeks and now back to the same thing. I've been meaning to call them but haven't got around to it yet.

Personally, I wouldn't buy it again.


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