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Old 11-03-2012, 11:34 PM   #91
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Buckhorn, i believe you are missing my point here. not everyone is as fortunate to have your resourses and location. glad you are able to have the set-up you do and it does sound quite well protected. but what about those who rent apartments or houses, or have limited funds to afford costly and effective security deterrents? should they just step aside and put a sign out that says "ROB ME PLEASE"? some people have to work with what they have and where they are.

i think Clr8ter's points were about those who can't affford high dollar security options and was about trying to do the best with what you could afford. i hate sound crass, but you keep bringing up all your years of doing this and all your experiance and your location and security, and to me it really is getting to the point more about you and your bragging and boasting. Clr8ter was about bringing other options and alternatives to the table of discussion, and you have done nothing by try and belittle him and his ideas. sorry but that IMO is in pretty poor taste. kind of why i posted on this thread, because i really got tired of you dogging him the way you were.

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Old 11-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #92
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Over the course of a few weeks we (the neighbors) put together enough evidence (pictures of cars and people, times, notes, some loot that had been abandoned in the woods, that sort of thing) that the Sheriff's office made two arrests and convictions were secured. The Sheriff's office did absolutely nothing beyond taking reports and making the arrests. All of the investigation and gathering of evidence was done by us.
Much respect you guys for this sort of thing. I have never heard of this happening. Well, I have heard about the cops not doing anything..... My buddies cat got shot by a .22 a few weeks ago, and the cops did basically nothing. (The cat is still alive and doing well.) Point is we can't expect help from them on a lot of stuff, and they can't protect us, either. Glad you got your problem taken care of. Excellent neighbors!
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:21 PM   #93
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Buckhorn, i believe you are missing my point here. not everyone is as fortunate to have your resourses and location. glad you are able to have the set-up you do and it does sound quite well protected. but what about those who rent apartments or houses, or have limited funds to afford costly and effective security deterrents? should they just step aside and put a sign out that says "ROB ME PLEASE"? some people have to work with what they have and where they are
.

Intersting that I get faulted for "missing the point" everytime I don't just agree that a proposed "security upgrade" is a "great idea." I get the point completely. I'm merely telling people how I have worked with the cirumstances I have at my house - and the ins and outs of what can be done.

I don't expect someone to do what I have done. I expect them to read what I've written, and analyze what they have to work with. Hopefully, my descriptions will spark someone to analyze what they're doing a little more carefully and say, "Hey, that gives me an idea."

Perhaps YOU missed the point where I said at one time I had a metal security container for my guns and reinforced it and then put a Master "hockey puck" lock on it? You have to work with what you have - and at some point, you have to invest some money in security. If you have a way to hide things - do it. I've already said that's an effective strategy.

Good locks cost money - can't help that, your goods are either worth some investment to protect or not. If you live in an apartment, you probably can't change the locks, you can't bolt things through the floor and into studs. However, what you could do is get a metal security container for your guns and reinforce that with metal bar material and put a good lock on it.

If you can locate it in a closet with a standard 36-inch door there is something very simple you can do. Take two pieces of 1/2x2-inch metal bar material that are the width of the interior of the closet. Take a piece of 7-gage metal for reinforcement on the inside of the container and thru-bolt the metal bars to the rear of the container (side against the back wall) at the top and bottom thru the container and the interior reinforcement using carriage bolts so you can't get ahold of the heads. You could also bolt the same kind of material to the bottom of the container as wide "feet" to make it even more difficult to move by cross bolting additional pieces that are the depth of the closet so it is wedged into place wall-to-wall.

Now if you've reinforced the outside of the container, and added bars to make it difficult if not impossible to move without deconstructing your additions - you've added too much time to the problem of taking your container in whole out of the apartment. This will work even if you have it in a bedroom as they won't be able get it through the bedroom door. If you've reinforced the outside and added a heavy duty padlock and shielded the shackle - they're pretty much done for a smash and grab hit on your place for getting at your guns.

These small additionas will greatly slow down anyone attempting to take the whole container out of closet or room as you've now increased the width to the point they can't get it through the door - so, they'll have to try and open the container in the closet or room - giving them much less time to work. Then if you've reinforced the outside of the container, especially the door and added a second security lock - that's about as good as you can get in slowing them down.

Here's another example. A friend and I put together a gun storage box for him using a Greenlee jobsite box that he got on sale. The jobsite box is heavier metal than most of the inexpensive gun containers. We modified it with some additional metal straps and welded a security plate on it for a different lock. We repainted it to match his living room, and made a decorative wooden top for it. He uses it as a "coffee table" that doubles as a gun container. He stores close to 1,000 lbs of lead shot in it (he reloads shotguns) along with his guns so it is impossible move without the proper moving dolly.

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think Clr8ter's points were about those who can't affford high dollar security options and was about trying to do the best with what you could afford. i hate sound crass, but you keep bringing up all your years of doing this and all your experiance and your location and security, and to me it really is getting to the point more about you and your bragging and boasting. Clr8ter was about bringing other options and alternatives to the table of discussion, and you have done nothing by try and belittle him and his ideas. sorry but that IMO is in pretty poor taste. kind of why i posted on this thread, because i really got tired of you dogging him the way you were.
Oh please...give me a break. I said to reinforce the jambs, use the proper hinges, and a good lock. I'm trying to help him - what he wants to do is unrealistic as a "security upgrade" - because it's NOT. If you don't want to believe that fine - use his upgrade and be a happy camper.

You want to buy into it as some kind of improvement - okay by me - but, I think homemade solutions posted on the Internet soliciting business, and finished off with questions on "price point?" need some comment - from a realistic point-of-view.

Look, if you don't do anything with the jambs or locks - I can kick the door in myself and I'm 64 years old - never mind using tools. If you add that much weight to a door, standard hinges WILL NOT CARRY THE WEIGHT and with little usage the hinge screws will pull out of the jambs.

At the risk of offending you further by "bragging" - I've conservatively looked at 15,000 or more different doors in the course of doing security upgrades. They are of all different types and designs from vault doors, glass store front doors, hollow core doors, solid core doors, wooden doors, steel doors, roll up doors, roof hatches, storage bunker doors, garage doors - you name, I've probably evaluated it.

I think I have the experience to critique someone's "security design" - can't help it if you don't like it. The reason I put in a little of my experience is that there are so many "experts" found on the Internet that I want to qualify my comments as being more than just another opinion - I actually have the basis for making the comments, not just to be argumentative.

If you think I'm "bragging and boasting" - you have the problem - not me. You might call me a professional since I get paid to do this kind of work. If you have a problem with someone who does this professionally making comments on supposed "security upgrades" - can't help you with YOUR attitude.

Dogging him? Again..REALLY - as I've said - everyone with a house key knows more about security than I do. Take what I tell you with a total grain of salt, and do whatever the hell you think YOU want to do that resembles "security" that lets you sleep better at night.

Here's a hint that has NOTHING to do with money - only creativity. Think of security like an onion with as many layers as you can create that someone attempting to steal something from you has to peel back to get at your possessions. You can do that no matter where you live or the amount of money you have to spend.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:30 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez View Post
.

Intersting that I get faulted for "missing the point" everytime I don't just agree that a proposed "security upgrade" is a "great idea." I get the point completely. I'm merely telling people how I have worked with the cirumstances I have at my house - and the ins and outs of what can be done.

I don't expect someone to do what I have done. I expect them to read what I've written, and analyze what they have to work with. Hopefully, my descriptions will spark someone to analyze what they're doing a little more carefully and say, "Hey, that gives me an idea."

Perhaps YOU missed the point where I said at one time I had a metal security container for my guns and reinforced it and then put a Master "hockey puck" lock on it? You have to work with what you have - and at some point, you have to invest some money in security. If you have a way to hide things - do it. I've already said that's an effective strategy.

Good locks cost money - can't help that, your goods are either worth some investment to protect or not. If you live in an apartment, you probably can't change the locks, you can't bolt things through the floor and into studs. However, what you could do is get a metal security container for your guns and reinforce that with metal bar material and put a good lock on it.

If you can locate it in a closet with a standard 36-inch door there is something very simple you can do. Take two pieces of 1/2x2-inch metal bar material that are the width of the interior of the closet. Take a piece of 7-gage metal for reinforcement on the inside of the container and thru-bolt the metal bars to the rear of the container (side against the back wall) at the top and bottom thru the container and the interior reinforcement using carriage bolts so you can't get ahold of the heads. You could also bolt the same kind of material to the bottom of the container as wide "feet" to make it even more difficult to move by cross bolting additional pieces that are the depth of the closet so it is wedged into place wall-to-wall.

Now if you've reinforced the outside of the container, and added bars to make it difficult if not impossible to move without deconstructing your additions - you've added too much time to the problem of taking you container in whole out of the apartment. This will work even if you have it in a bedroom as they won't be able get it through the bedroom door. If you've reinforced the outside and added a heavy duty padlock and shielded the shackle - they're pretty much done for a smash and grab hit on your place for getting at your guns.

These small additionas will greatly slow down anyone attempting to take the whole container out of closet or room as you've now increased the width to the point they can't get it through the door - so, they'll have to try and open the container in the closet or room - giving them much less time to work. Then if you've reinforced the outside of the container, especially the door and added a second security lock - that's about as good as you can get in slowing them down.

Here's another example. A friend and I put together a gun storage box for him using a Greenlee jobsite box that he got on sale. The jobsite box is heavier metal than most of the inexpensive gun containers. We modified it with some additional metal straps and welded a security plate on it for a different lock. We repainted it to match his living room, and made a decorative wooden top for it. He uses it as a "coffee table" that doubles as a gun container. He stores close to 1,000 lbs of lead shot in it (he reloads shotguns) along with his guns so it is impossible move without the proper moving dolly.



Oh please...give me a break. I said to reinforce the jambs, use the proper hinges, and a good lock. I'm trying to help him - what he wants to do is unrealistic as a "security upgrade" - because it's NOT. If you don't want to believe that fine - use his upgrade and be a happy camper.

You want to buy into it as some kind of improvement - okay by me - but, I think homemade solutions posted on the Internet soliciting business, and finished off with questions on "price point?" need some comment - from a realistic point-of-view.

Look, if you don't do anything with the jambs or locks - I can kick the door in myself and I'm 64 years old - never mind using tools. If you add that much weight to a door, standard hinges WILL NOT CARRY THE WEIGHT and with little usage the hinge screws will pull out of the jambs.

At the risk of offending you further by "bragging" - I've conservatively looked at 15,000 or more different doors in the course of doing security upgrades. They are of all different types and designs from vault doors, glass store front doors, hollow core doors, solid core doors, wooden doors, steel doors, roll up doors, roof hatches, storage bunker doors, garage doors - you name, I've probably evaluated it.

I think I have the experience to critique someone's "security design" - can't help it if you don't like it. The reason I put in a little of my experience is that there are so many "experts" found on the Internet that I want to qualify my comments as being more than just another opinion - I actually have the basis for making the comments, not just to be argumentative.

If you think I'm "bragging and boasting" - you have the problem - not me. You might call me a professional since I get paid to do this kind of work. If you have a problem with someone who does this professionally making comments on supposed "security upgrades" - can't help you with YOUR attitude.

Dogging him? Again..REALLY - as I've said - everyone with a house key knows more about security than I do. Take what I tell you with a total grain of salt, and do whatever the hell you think YOU want to do that resembles "security" that lets you sleep better at night.

Here's a hint that has NOTHING to do with money - only creativity. Think of security like an onion with as many layers as you can create that someone attempting to steal something from you has to peel back to get at your possessions. You can do that no matter where you live or the amount of money you have to spend.
Buckhorn i realize all that. my point is simply you have a different set of skills and experiance than others. it's simply not what you know, but how you present what you know.

and in many of your posts, i am sorry but you really came off as more as some know-it-all and none of us or Clr8ter knew anything about security. to put it bluntly, it was rather condescending IMO and uncalled for. frankly when someone i feel has this sort of attitude, i really don't care what their skill level is or what their experiance is, i tend to pass on pretty much anything they have to say.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:11 PM   #95
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Buckhorn i realize all that. my point is simply you have a different set of skills and experiance than others. it's simply not what you know, but how you present what you know.

and in many of your posts, i am sorry but you really came off as more as some know-it-all and none of us or Clr8ter knew anything about security. to put it bluntly, it was rather condescending IMO and uncalled for. frankly when someone i feel has this sort of attitude, i really don't care what their skill level is or what their experiance is, i tend to pass on pretty much anything they have to say.
Okay - you're going to be offended no matter what I write or how I state it -noted.

Hopefully, other people will read it with an open mind and find something useful.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:23 PM   #96
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Okay - you're going to be offended no matter what I write or how I state it -noted.

Hopefully, other people will read it with an open mind and find something useful.
Buckhorn, you made some very valid points and i am trying to get across to you, that how you present those thoughts, opinions or experiances are a factor in how they are accepted by the masses here. you have such a diverse collection of members here from all walks of life and occupations, different environments and locations, different skill sets and varied income levels. IMO you came down on Clr8ter kind of hard and kind of dogged on him for wanting to present an alternative option for those who couldn't afford a high dollar safe. i am not saying you were wrong in your assessment of his idea, but wrong in how it was stated. personally, i think you have much valuable skills and information that would be of use to many here, and have read some of the past post you have made and feel you actually do have some idea as to what you are talking about. but not everyone can afford what some of us can or have an ideal location, or some even rent apartments or houses, so everyones situation is going to be different. so please keep that in mind when others have ideas about things and remember that many may not have your skills or experiance.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:59 PM   #97
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Buckhorn, you made some very valid points and i am trying to get across to you, that how you present those thoughts, opinions or experiances are a factor in how they are accepted by the masses here. you have such a diverse collection of members here from all walks of life and occupations, different environments and locations, different skill sets and varied income levels. IMO you came down on Clr8ter kind of hard and kind of dogged on him for wanting to present an alternative option for those who couldn't afford a high dollar safe. i am not saying you were wrong in your assessment of his idea, but wrong in how it was stated. personally, i think you have much valuable skills and information that would be of use to many here, and have read some of the past post you have made and feel you actually do have some idea as to what you are talking about. but not everyone can afford what some of us can or have an ideal location, or some even rent apartments or houses, so everyones situation is going to be different. so please keep that in mind when others have ideas about things and remember that many may not have your skills or experiance.
Nothing I have proposed is expensive. In fact, what I have proposed for helping secure a low dollar security container is far less than the original $300 proposed price point for a door that would be put into a wall that I can kick through in 30 seconds - and then carry out whatever I want through the hole in the wall.

You're okay with a homebuilt security door with NO ESTIMATED COST and NO known level of security - but you're categorizing everything I say as 'high cost." Why is that?

Actually - I wouldn't bother kicking through a wall. I always carry a folding lockback knife. I'd score the surface of the wall board - and then knock out a complete entry. It would probably take 5 minutes to get through both sides of the wall - but, then I'd have a doorway I could walk through.

Look - do you get the idea that making a door in an unreinforced wall isn't much of a security upgrade? Do you get the idea that you could probably get a steel door and steel frame from a local home improvement store for less money than the proposed security upgrade? That if installed correctly, the steel door will be a better security upgrade than the proposed homemade attempt?

You keep going back to apartments, etc. I've given you ideas for apartments and you want to ignore the suggestions and complain further. I can't help you much if all you want to do is complain.

Give me an exact problem YOU have with a good description of YOUR problem, and I will be more than glad to attempt to help you figure out what YOU can do for YOUR budget.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:42 PM   #98
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I just read thru this entire thread, I think people are getting a little to sensitive. Buckhorn came in and gave some pretty great answers and suggestions. I guess that type info wouldn't be free in real life. Pretty sure there wasn't any boasting in his reply's.
Side note this thread has given me a ton of ideas since I recently moved. Thanks!

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Old 11-05-2012, 05:02 AM   #99
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Axxe,

Valiant effort, A+ for your post. Some would rather the drama than to take what you said to heart.

All you can do is try, and you did it well.

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Old 11-09-2012, 02:05 PM   #100
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So, OP, did you get a safe?

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