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Old 01-06-2010, 01:35 AM   #1
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Default Your primary weapon versus multiple bad guys

I know things like this are relatively uncommon, but they do happen.

Mass shootings, home invasions, car jackings, assaults and robberies sometimes involve multiple suspects who work together as a team against the victim.

Does the possibility of multiple sociopathic bad guys such as in this story have any influence on your choice of carry or home defense weapon?

Or are you comfortable carrying a small auto or 5-shot revolver?


Suspect in N.H. Machete Attack Regrets Girl Survived - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

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Suspect in N.H. Machete Attack Regrets Girl Survived
Tuesday , January 05, 2010



MILFORD, N.H. —

One of the men charged with killing a woman in her bed told police his only regret was that he didn't also succeed in killing her 11-year-old daughter, who was sleeping in the same room, according to police documents released Tuesday.

Christopher Gribble told police after his arrest he had wanted to kill someone for a long time and was disappointed he didn't feel any emotion following the Oct. 4 killing of Kimberly Cates in her Mont Vernon home. Cates' daughter, 11-year-old Jaimie, was injured during the attack.

"Gribble stated his only regret was he didn't kill the child because she now had to live with this," the documents said. "Gribble stated that if he realized she was alive he would have killed her."

Five men, ages 18 to 20, were charged in connection with the early morning home invasion. Documents supporting the arrests of the four men accused of entering Cates' home were released Tuesday after a request from The Associated Press and other media outlets.

The judge had refused to release the documents earlier, saying to do so could have revealed the scope and direction of the state's investigation.

The killing stunned Mont Vernon, a rural town of about 2,000 residents near the Massachusetts border where the 42-year-old Cates worked as a nurse. A community group has been working on a strategy to help residents deal with the release of the court documents, with three public forums planned this month.

Gribble's account provides a graphic description of what happened after he and three others entered the Cates home and found Kimberly Cates in her bed. Jaimie Cates was sleeping in the same room, although it was unclear if they were sleeping in the same bed. Kimberly Cates' husband, David, was traveling.

Gribble, 20, told police he and longtime friend Steven Spader, 18, agreed they would break into the house and that if anyone was home "they would just kill the people in the home for fun," the documents said. They shut off the electricity and lit their way through the home with an iPod.

Gribble and Spader and two others — William Marks and Quinn Glover, both 18 and of Amherst — found their way to the master bedroom, where Cates woke up, asking "Jaimie, is that you?" Gribble told police.

Spader attacked Kimberly Cates with a machete, Gribble said. Jaimie then jumped over her mother and Gribble stabbed her in the face and in the chest, trying to puncture her heart to kill her, he said. He said he then threw her against a door and assumed she had died. She later told police she pretended to be dead.

After the attack, the four searched the house for valuables, Gribble told police. They removed their clothing and wiped the knives on a Burger King bag, the documents said.

When a police officer arrived at the house, he saw Jaimie bleeding profusely. She said, "They killed my mommy," the documents said. He carried her outside and went back in. He found Kimberly Cates lying on the bed, naked from the waist down with extreme trauma to her head, the documents said.

Gribble and Spader have been charged with first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder.

A message left for Gribble's attorney, Donna Brown, was not immediately returned Tuesday.

Spader is accused of driving the group to Kimberly Cates' neighborhood and cutting her with a machete in the head, torso, arms and legs. Gribble is accused of stabbing her with a knife. Both are accused of attacking Jaimie, who was hospitalized for more than two weeks.

Spader denied any involvement in the attack when interviewed by police. He said he did not know who did it and "that whoever did it should get the death penalty," according to the affidavit.

Spader's attorney, Jonathan Cohen, declined to comment on the documents. "He's presumed innocent," Cohen said.

Marks and Glover are charged with burglary, conspiracy to commit burglary and robbery.

Marks admitted he took part in the burglary, according to the documents. Glover said he walked around houses on a dirt road in Mont Vernon that night, the documents said.

Glover's attorney, Peter Anderson, declined to comment. Marks' attorney, Andrew Gallagher, did not immediately return a message seeking comment Tuesday.

Prosecutors said the group picked the home at random and because it was on an isolated road, but all knew of the plan to kill whoever was home.

In November, a fifth man, 20-year-old Autumn Savoy of Hollis, was charged with coming up with the plan to toss clothing and other items from the crime scene into the Nashua River. He also was charged with telling police that Gribble and Spader spent the night at his home.

Savoy later agreed to show police where the items were thrown in the river. Police recovered two floating wooden jewelry boxes, sneakers and a partially submerged wallet with a military dog tag with David Cates' name, as well as clothing that belonged to Spader and Gribble, the documents said.

Prosecutors said Gribble and Spader came to Savoy's home after the attack, believing both mother and daughter were dead. The three men went on the Internet to search for news of the attack and discovered that Jaimie Cates had survived, prosecutors said.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:47 AM   #2
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“It has never been clear to me why increased magazine capacity in a defensive pistol is particularly choice. The bigger the magazine the bigger the gun, and the bigger the gun the harder it is to get hold of for people with small hands. And what, pray, does one need all those rounds for? How many lethal antagonists do you think you are going to be able to handle? Once when Bruce Nelson was asked by a suspect if the thirteen-round magazine in the P35 was not a big advantage, Bruce's answer was, "Well, yes, if you plan to miss a lot." The highest score I know of at this time achieved by one man against a group of armed adversaries was recorded in (of all places) the Ivory Coast! There, some years ago, a graduate student of mine laid out five goblins, with four dead and one totaled for the hospital. Of course there is the episode of Alvin York and his eight, but there is some dispute about that tale. (If you read it over very carefully you will see what I mean.) Be that as it may, I see no real need for a double column magazine. It is all the rage, of course, and a popular current sales gimmick.” Col. Jeff Cooper
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:48 AM   #3
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when i had a CCW permit back in texas i carried a Sig P220 7 shot with 2 extra magazines in the summer i carried a walther PPK .380 with 2 extra magazines. i felt comfy with either of them. i am a really good shot and i have been shot at before and i know i wont freeze under fire.

now however i live in the people's republic of wisconsin and i think it is the only state in the union that has no form of concealed carry and no real right to self defense. it is totally up tot he whatever DA cares to prosecute or not if you defend yourself. my home pistol is a CZ97BD and i keep a shotgun in the house which is a 12Ga mossberg 590. i am totally comfy with either.

most criminals are cowards and will flee as much as they are able at the first gunshot. if they werent of low moral character they would not be criminals. cowardarly behaviour goes hand in hand with low moral character and the types of people that commit violent crimes for the most part.

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Old 01-06-2010, 02:18 AM   #4
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Juh see that cellphone footage of the shootings in Las Vegas yesterday? 50-60 rounds shot from multiple axes on one perp. The largest tube in the world ain't worth a crap if it's empty.

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Old 01-06-2010, 02:46 AM   #5
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My pholosphy is simple- my revolver is to allow me to fight my way to my shotgun.

My shotgun is to allow me to fight my way to the radio.

When I get to the radio, I will NAPALM your azz for disturbing my sleep.


Seriously, I now carry for social purpose, not work. My sidearm is to buy me room to run. If you are chasing me, I plan for you to be chasing me with a sucking chest wound.

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Old 01-06-2010, 03:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
My pholosphy is simple- my revolver is to allow me to fight my way to my shotgun.

My shotgun is to allow me to fight my way to the radio.

When I get to the radio, I will NAPALM your azz for disturbing my sleep.


Seriously, I now carry for social purpose, not work. My sidearm is to buy me room to run. If you are chasing me, I plan for you to be chasing me with a sucking chest wound.
c3 you crack me up!
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:43 AM   #7
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most criminals are cowards and will flee as much as they are able at the first gunshot. if they werent of low moral character they would not be criminals. cowardarly behaviour goes hand in hand with low moral character and the types of people that commit violent crimes for the most part.
But if CCW were legal in Wisconsin, would you base your choice of carry gun on this assumption?

No doubt about criminals having a "low moral character," but many of them are not cowards nor are they stupid. Many of them have been shot before and will proudly show you their wounds.

Some of them are around guns all the time and are not afraid of them.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:11 AM   #8
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I carry whatever rounds will fit in the magazine plus an extra magazine. It's not likely that I'll need every bullet, but better to have it and not need it........

I would only carry a revolver as a back-up. Doesn't make my choice better than anyone else's, but I'm the only one I have to account for.

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Old 01-06-2010, 11:31 AM   #9
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Down here south where I live we have lately seen a high increase in assaults/robberies with multiple perp’s, so it has definitely influenced my choice of the weapon I carry. Today I am using a SIG P250 (9mm/15+1), but I am contemplating to go back to the original Tupperware gun.

I am not sure if I agree 100% with Canebreak’s initial comment. Yes, I would guess that there is a tendency to fire of too many rounds with a high capacity gun, but what would be the alternative? To confront 2-5 perp´s, in your home, holding your wife and kids at gun point, with a 5 round snubby loaded with .357Mag ( most likely it won’t happen as by that time my 13 year old daughter would already have neutralized the threat with her GLOCK 17 ) ? In that case I prefer the high capacity gun. Also to take into consideration is the reaction from a perp. JonM is right I think, when he says that most perps are cowards, but I am not sure their level of “cowardness” is a global constant. I’ve seen some pretty outlandish things down here, so I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:31 PM   #10
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Good Lord what a horrible story. Disturbing.

Well any gun is better than nothing. But you have to have time to get to it, part of an overall plan. Like the man said, handgun to fight way to long gun nearby. If you use a roscoe or a single stack it is prudent to have at least one reload nearby. The sound of the first shot will change the situation dramatically, maybe for the better, maybe not. But it will change.

Again very disturbing.

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