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Old 06-11-2013, 09:55 PM   #91
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I see you're changing your tune from "can't happen" to doesn't happen enough to be statistically worthy of mention. You're learning.

By the way, I really liked the "hundreds of millions do not" comment. I needed a good laugh today.

One more thing. Can you tell me why every time someone proves you wrong about something they are automatically labeled as "indoctrinated by the progressives" or some other derogatory comment? What's next? Are you going to start correcting our grammar or spelling?
No 'change of tune' here. Probability (logic/reality) verses possibility (emotion/misinformation)!!!!
To answer your question, the reason I point out the fact this is a result of progressive indoctrination is because it's true.
The PC police are alive and well, even here!
Just curious, who 'proved' me wrong? It's not possible to prove reality wrong!
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #92
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English mastiffs are awesome dogs. Big lovable goofballs. But every one I have met were big pussies lol. I'll stick to the German Shepard.

To the point in Indiana it's illegal to fire on somebody unless they are in your home. But I don't have to say anything to somebody uninvited. If you are stupid enough to come toward the German Shepard freaking out, you will see one very bright LED light and then a couple more bright flashes. The rest will be up to whomever you pray to.
That laws flawed as can be Rifleman, that supposes the only threat you face will be in your home. I have 9 acres, a barn and I live in the boondocks, if a threat is to confront me while I am armed, it wont necessarily be in my house.

Castle Doctrine and other laws that restrict standing our ground based on the threshold of our doorway presume we all live in apartments or cull de sacs in well patrolled neighborhoods. Thats not my reality nor that of half of America.

Overall, we in Rural America enjoy a significantly less crime ridden existence than city dwellers and Urbanites the laws were created for but were likely our first and only effective line of defense and bad crap isnt restricted to my dwelling nor is my response.

As far as the warning shot goes, Its not happening. I wouldnt shoot if I wasnt in fear of my life or someones life I care about; If you earned that kind of fear from me, youve got whats coming next if I have a chance to do it!

Consider the 1st round the warning if I dont hit you with it, otherwise just say gnite Gracy!
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:55 AM   #93
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That laws flawed as can be Rifleman, that supposes the only threat you face will be in your home. I have 9 acres, a barn and I live in the boondocks, if a threat is to confront me while I am armed, it wont necessarily be in my house.

Castle Doctrine and other laws that restrict standing our ground based on the threshold of our doorway presume we all live in apartments or cull de sacs in well patrolled neighborhoods. Thats not my reality nor that of half of America.

Overall, we in Rural America enjoy a significantly less crime ridden existence than city dwellers and Urbanites the laws were created for but were likely our first and only effective line of defense and bad crap isnt restricted to my dwelling nor is my response.

As far as the warning shot goes, Its not happening. I wouldnt shoot if I wasnt in fear of my life or someones life I care about; If you earned that kind of fear from me, youve got whats coming next if I have a chance to do it!

Consider the 1st round the warning if I dont hit you with it, otherwise just say gnite Gracy!
in Texas, the Castle Law makes your vehicle and even your workplace extensions of your property and allow you to have the right to defend yourself and property.

many years ago, before my wife and i built our home, my property sat vacant and i would come down on weekends and target shoot, because i lived in town. sometimes on weekend nights, some youngsters would park on my property and have campfires and drink beer. they would leave beer cans, bottles and trash thrown about the place when they left. well one weekend i decided to camp out and catch them. i did! i waited until they got good and intoxicated and then snuck in and took my tire tool and removed most of all the tire valves and left most of the vehicles sitting on flats. i then called the sheriffs office and explained the situation and that i wanted them removed. i then eased over to my father's house about where my truck was parked and got over there before the deputies showed up. had all them arrested for trespassing, had all their vehicles impounded and made them come back and clean my property up. plus the deputies filed some of their own charges for minors in possession of alcohol and public drunkeness and some other charges. it was an interesting weekend and stopped the parties on my property!
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:02 PM   #94
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Doc,
I sympathize with you. You see a lot of 'blood and guts' in your profession and it has a tendency to skew your perception of reality. I know this because I have been there, saw that, done that, and HAVE THE SCARS TO PROVE IT! You MUST work through it, and as you mature I am sure you will, as most of us who spent too much time in the 'the mud, the blood, and the beer' have. But if you are honest you will admit those of us in LE are most often 'in the thick of it' before the medical professionals are. Thus we get to deal with the violence as well as the aftermath. Keep up the good work.

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Old 06-12-2013, 01:17 PM   #95
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Doc,
I sympathize with you. You see a lot of 'blood and guts' in your profession and it has a tendency to skew your perception of reality. I know this because I have been there, saw that, done that, and HAVE THE SCARS TO PROVE IT! You MUST work through it, and as you mature I am sure you will, as most of us who spent too much time in the 'the mud, the blood, and the beer' have. But if you are honest you will admit those of us in LE are most often 'in the thick of it' before the medical professionals are. Thus we get to deal with the violence as well as the aftermath. Keep up the good work.
As I mature? Heck, I'm retired. I started in LE and moved over to rescue after 2 years because I knew I wasn't suited for LE. Knowing what I know now, if I had it to do all over again I probably wouldn't have chosen rescue, either. The changes for the worse in 30 plus years were unbelievable. I consider myself fortunate to have escaped with only a few heart attacks. Many of my coworkers weren't that lucky.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:34 PM   #96
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As I mature? Heck, I'm retired. I started in LE and moved over to rescue after 2 years because I knew I wasn't suited for LE. Knowing what I know now, if I had it to do all over again I probably wouldn't have chosen rescue, either. The changes for the worse in 30 plus years were unbelievable. I consider myself fortunate to have escaped with only a few heart attacks. Many of my coworkers weren't that lucky.
What I am referring to is your thought process, not how many years you have been on the earth. I look back and I can see how my thought process has changed since I have been able to look at things from MANY different perspectives.
This thread is a prime example of which I speak.
Every time I have set 'absolutes' like always or never I have found how wrong I was. As we 'mature' we have the ability to look back as well as forward.
Reference this topic, I see many people being swayed to the progressive point of view ever so slowly (that guns are inherently unsafe, which they are not, and EVERY bullet is an EXTREME danger, which it is not) and I am simply trying to point this out.
As for your comment about my spelling a grammar, I am dyslexic and have to be careful with 'words' as I thing much faster than I type and I can't spell 'fourchitt'. Spell check is God sent, but it is not perfect.
I have the upmost respect you and your work even if we do not alway see eye to eye on things. Keep up the good work.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:20 PM   #97
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What I am referring to is your thought process, not how many years you have been on the earth. I look back and I can see how my thought process has changed since I have been able to look at things from MANY different perspectives.
This thread is a prime example of which I speak.
Every time I have set 'absolutes' like always or never I have found how wrong I was. As we 'mature' we have the ability to look back as well as forward.
Reference this topic, I see many people being swayed to the progressive point of view ever so slowly (that guns are inherently unsafe, which they are not, and EVERY bullet is an EXTREME danger, which it is not) and I am simply trying to point this out.
As for your comment about my spelling a grammar, I am dyslexic and have to be careful with 'words' as I thing much faster than I type and I can't spell 'fourchitt'. Spell check is God sent, but it is not perfect.
I have the upmost respect you and your work even if we do not alway see eye to eye on things. Keep up the good work.
My thought processes have changed, too. I am now much more cynical. much less likely to trust, and even more disgusted by the actions of the species we call man. I also don't believe in black and white absolutes anymore. There are always shades of gray.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:27 AM   #98
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That laws flawed as can be Rifleman, that supposes the only threat you face will be in your home. I have 9 acres, a barn and I live in the boondocks, if a threat is to confront me while I am armed, it wont necessarily be in my house.

Castle Doctrine and other laws that restrict standing our ground based on the threshold of our doorway presume we all live in apartments or cull de sacs in well patrolled neighborhoods. Thats not my reality nor that of half of America.

Overall, we in Rural America enjoy a significantly less crime ridden existence than city dwellers and Urbanites the laws were created for but were likely our first and only effective line of defense and bad crap isnt restricted to my dwelling nor is my response.

As far as the warning shot goes, Its not happening. I wouldnt shoot if I wasnt in fear of my life or someones life I care about; If you earned that kind of fear from me, youve got whats coming next if I have a chance to do it!

Consider the 1st round the warning if I dont hit you with it, otherwise just say gnite Gracy!
Just stating the law in Indiana. Not saying its perfect. I live on three acres not really close to any neighbors or a road. If I spot you on my property and haven't invited you there is something wrong but I still can't do anything unless you are in my home or threatening me.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:25 AM   #99
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Just stating the law in Indiana. Not saying its perfect. I live on three acres not really close to any neighbors or a road. If I spot you on my property and haven't invited you there is something wrong but I still can't do anything unless you are in my home or threatening me.
some states even require you to retreat from your own home before you are allowed to defend yourself. IMO, that almost means that a BG has more rights than the LAC does. he is allowed to break-in to your home, become a danger to you or your loved ones, but you are the one required to retreat from you own home as you are not allowed to defend yourself untl he pursues you after you retreat. that in my book is BS!
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:00 AM   #100
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http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE76/htm/76_02_040200.htm

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76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined.
(1) (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that force or a threat of force is necessary to defend the person or a third person against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.
(b) A person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if the person reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to the person or a third person as a result of another person's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(2) (a) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in Subsection (1) if the person:
(i) initially provokes the use of force against the person with the intent to use force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(ii) is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(iii) was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement, unless the person withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and, notwithstanding, the other person continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.
(b) For purposes of Subsection (2)(a)(iii) the following do not, by themselves, constitute "combat by agreement":
(i) voluntarily entering into or remaining in an ongoing relationship; or
(ii) entering or remaining in a place where one has a legal right to be.
(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat from the force or threatened force described in Subsection (1) in a place where that person has lawfully entered or remained, except as provided in Subsection (2)(a)(iii).
(4) (a) For purposes of this section, a forcible felony includes aggravated assault, mayhem, aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and aggravated kidnapping, rape, forcible sodomy, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, and aggravated sexual assault as defined in Title 76, Chapter 5, Offenses Against the Person, and arson, robbery, and burglary as defined in Title 76, Chapter 6, Offenses Against Property.
(b) Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony.
(c) Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted.
(5) In determining imminence or reasonableness under Subsection (1), the trier of fact may consider, but is not limited to, any of the following factors:
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
(d) the other's prior violent acts or violent propensities; and
(e) any patterns of abuse or violence in the parties' relationship.
So from what I understand, in Utah, you have no duty to retreat from anywhere you are lawfully allowed to be?
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