Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection > Why train/practice defensive scenarios?

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Old 05-29-2013, 12:17 AM   #21
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BTB, as I understand what you're saying, you believe that someone that goes to the shooting range infrequently (once or twice a year) and do slow fire, single shot from a solid stance so that they understand the basics of how to use their firearm are adequately trained for a self-defense situation. Any "trick" moves like double-tapping multiple assailants, moving to cover, using cover while returning fire are good enough to just read about because as long as you are aware of them, your brain will implement it during an emergency situation.

The reason that most people believe in muscle memory and repetitive training is that when they have tried the skills they've read about, they have found themselves very poor at executing the skill. After practice of a skill over hours, days, weeks, months, years, they are able to execute the skill flawlessly without thinking about the skill itself. This level of skillset leaves the person better able to use their brain for the emergency situation they find themselves in and better able to identify targets, keep civilians safe, identify safe cover, etc. instead of also adding on top of all of that the skills that they did not commit to muscle memory.

Example, target Identification: I used to shoot with a group of friends that used 3D targets that were dressed in real clothing, caps, guns, badges and we even had a few accessories like shopping carts, file cabinets and other things to make very real scenarios. A couple of guys were "Scene Setters" each time and would design a scenario based on a news story of a real shooting. They would create the targets and then lead a blindfolded shooter to his starting position. On the start signal, the shooter would remove his blindfold and engage the scenario with shooting, movement and target I.D. at the shooter's discretion. I learned TONS from doing this, like never trust a woman with a baby and don't shoot the baby! I learned to not assume all cops wore a badge on their chest (check the belt AND the necklace chain) and gang bangers are not always the danger. I trained to NOT move behind a gas pump for cover. I found out that firing from cover that is blocking your gun side is much more difficult than the off-hand side. The mistakes I made made me a much better shooter and gave me the experience of being in a public environment, not stuffed in a shooting lane.

Example, movement: During one of those scenarios, a shooter moving to cover after engaging a target tripped, rolled and recovered to his feet while holding his weapon. He had trained to never touch the trigger unless he was ready to shoot and in this situation, it saved him from negligent discharge. Someone that had not trained for proper movement might have had a bad day.

Example, gun handling: In your standard range shooting, there are scenarios that do not present themselves because you are not rapid-firing, drawing to fire and moving to cover while running in a crouch. At a shooting range, you may not get the same FTFd, FTEj, FTFi that occur when in a real-life situation and at the range you have infinite time and resources to resolve the issue. When put under time and life-threatening danger pressure, you have to be trained to react instead of thinking about what to do. Tap-and-rack? Drop mag, clear and reload w/ new mag? Drop gun and go to backup gun? To not be a chalk outline, you have to respond without taking the time to think.

Most humans do anything better, faster and with more accuracy if they practice multiple times over multiple sessions. When your life is at stake, it would seem that those skills would be the ones more than any other you would want to execute instinctively.

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Old 05-29-2013, 12:25 AM   #22
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Not at all, I believe in shooting often enough to get accurate, then shooting often enough to remain accurate, then well, shoot as often as you want, from there the rest is a potential set up for failure.

Most humans perform better in control groups with controlled and predesigned situations, you're absolutely correct, and that's exactly the problem!

Send a man with a blindfold into a situation he knows is a situations and you set him up.

Everything you all say is A SET UP! And that's all you all do.

Now honestly, I could care less if you fail or succeed, in general, but I believe in righteousness, and in a righteous situation you all would win, so I'm doing my best to ensure that happens.

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Old 05-29-2013, 12:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondTheBox View Post
Not at all, I believe in shooting often enough to get accurate, then shooting often enough to remain accurate, then well, shoot as often as you want, from there the rest is a potential set up for failure.

Most humans perform better in control groups with controlled and predesigned situations, you're absolutely correct, and that's exactly the problem!
But by practicing the same skillset in dynamic (ever-changing) situations, we become better at applying that skillset in a real-world situation. When there is no skillset (single-shot, isosceles stance, nobody moving) and no practical application, neither the body nor mind improves in application.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:37 AM   #24
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But by practicing the same skillset in dynamic (ever-changing) situations, we become better at applying that skillset in a real-world situation. When there is no skillset (single-shot, isosceles stance, nobody moving) and no practical application, neither the body nor mind improves in application.
Couldn't disagree more. Most bodies are in a perpetual statement of movement in some form or another.

Again, it's the brain, not the muscles. You severely underestimate the mind's capability to understand and formulate proper technique to compensate in any given situation, regardless of what you want it to do.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:37 AM   #25
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Send a man with a blindfold into a situation he knows is a situations and you set him up.

Everything you all say is A SET UP! And that's all you all do.
The shooter knows there is a scenario. He may have to draw and not shoot, draw and shoot, or even not draw. Move or don't move. Single or multiple persons. This is the same variety you have in the Wal-Mart parking lot when someone shouts behind you, so it is very true-to-life.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:43 AM   #26
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The shooter knows there is a scenario. He may have to draw and not shoot, draw and shoot, or even not draw. Move or don't move. Single or multiple persons. This is the same variety you have in the Wal-Mart parking lot when someone shouts behind you, so it is very true-to-life.
Precisely, and you don't train for that do ya? You're only making my case easier.

This is nowhere near the same "variety". The point is you cannot (THIS IS MATTER OF FACT) predict the variety, ley alone single scenario you'll be facing. END OF STORY.

Not the number of people, the weapon, the bystanders placement or number, the ricochet, the this, the that, the etc, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:50 AM   #27
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Many duelists have regretted less practice... but only for a minute or two.

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Old 05-29-2013, 12:50 AM   #28
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Many duelists have regretted less practice... but only for a minute or two.
Hey another inept assessment
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:00 AM   #29
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You have become unreasonable.



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Old 05-29-2013, 01:00 AM   #30
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You have become unreasonable.
Not at all, I've already addressed the point you simply reintroduced in a much less intellectually stimulating way.

But you've got a pretty mouth there bubba. ; D
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