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Old 07-14-2014, 06:54 AM   #11
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Default why i do not OC

Our small town has only a handful of officers, and gets it's dispatch out of a larger town next to us,..with support from the County as well,..
On any given major incident, we could have 3 different departments responding. Perps never last long on the run here. There was a guy who escaped Monday morning from a transit in a jumpsuit shackled. Well he had help to get out of them clearly, they still managed to find him Thursday Am. Along the River access in camp verde,.... Idiot was trying to build a raft to go upstream to get back behind the mountains bordering the Joint Reserve base Navaho in Williams, get on a rail car outside of the track lay ups in the base area and take a boxcar to California...
Our Town Sgt. Was by today and stopped to say hello while I was out front killing weeds,. His brother in law was one of the county Deputies that found the guy. He related the story to me.mThe whole mortal of the story is I do support OC and carry openly in the Desert, or on my property. I'm more comfortable practicing Concealed Carry and do when not on my property or out and about in town....


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Old 07-14-2014, 12:49 PM   #12
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Since I am not a LEO, Bank Guard, MP, etc........I see no reason to display my firearm. I conceal carry for purposes of self defense - only. I don't carry a gun to protect you, or the guy next to me, or the guy across the room. It's for self defense.

one big + for open carry - I can carry a full-sized handgun comfortably that way. My 'love handles' prohibit me from IWB carry of my CZ75, Full-size S&W, etc. In the winter, no big deal, coat covers it. In the summer, different story....Tommy Bahama shirts I guess
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chloeshooter View Post
Since I am not a LEO, Bank Guard, MP, etc........I see no reason to display my firearm. I conceal carry for purposes of self defense - only. I don't carry a gun to protect you, or the guy next to me, or the guy across the room. It's for self defense.

one big + for open carry - I can carry a full-sized handgun comfortably that way. My 'love handles' prohibit me from IWB carry of my CZ75, Full-size S&W, etc. In the winter, no big deal, coat covers it. In the summer, different story....Tommy Bahama shirts I guess
this.

i like to carry my berreta M9 with its 20 round mag. thats a lot of comfort to me having that much ammo without reloading. however without OC i wouldnt be able to carry it easily since it sticks out the bottom of most of my shirts.

do not confuse my reluctance to openly display firearms and giving up a huge tactical advantage in self defense for being against OC. i want OC laws to exist so i dont have to worry if a shirt tail rides up or a gun outline shows.

as to the original story yes the guy targeted the security guard because he was carrying a gun. i dont think he went to the shop to wait for a OC'r but it was the first gun he saw so he took advantage of the moment. if the guard had been a civilian OC'ing the result would have been the same. his open display of a handgun made him a target. thats my point.

the other thing that goes with open display of a handgun is you have to be extra wary of any person around you. when i was doing the MP thing i liked my flap holster because it made it hard for the person i was fighting to get my gun. what i didnt like was having to be constantly vigilant of everyone around me and i spent my tiume in public trying to guard the gun from being snatched.

a concealed firearm is MUCH harder to steal than one sitting openly in a holster. its bad enough you can get your pockets picked wallet stolen etc but its a LOT harder to steal a gun out of a holster thats in a front pocket inside a waste band or outside one but covered in clothing.
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:03 PM   #14
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Doc has a valid point!

Common Sense!
There is a time to OC and a time to CC!
I recall one thread comment here on the FTF that advised that because the member was CO a wise A** punk confronted him personally and belligerently challenged him to DO SOMETHING BIG MAN! That is not a good situation to be in although the older gentleman handled the situation very well and I compliented him for his actions. But I could easily see it going South! And as one mentioned, a prison educated con might not think twice about attempting to take a weapon off a citizens with OC. The practice in prison to disarm the police and others. Also the Starbuck and Target issue comes up. If you a CC know one knows you are carrying and do have the ability to defend yourself and others. I personally see a great need to OC in the desert, hunting and other areas. But think it is best to CC when out in public. Simply goes back to the common sense issue and I do not want to add fuel to the Anti-Gun Liberal Socialist public's cause. Only an opinion and we all have the right to have one!

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Old 07-14-2014, 03:11 PM   #15
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personally, and i realize this is MY preference and opinion, i think OC for SD makes little sense for SD for citizen. so i agree with Jon on this. BUT...i recognize of course, not everyone agrees with this position.

i don't think OC should be illegal. HOWEVER, i do think OC carry persons should be held to common sense etiquette through law.

just as loud, obscene music/talk can be an abuse of free speech by disturbing the peace.....alarm raised with firearms is an abuse of 2A rights imo. OC carriers must always do so in a non-threatening manner. thus, hands off their OC weapon unless it is to be used. weapons holstered and rifles slung and hands off. any other behavior should be punished by law as a disturbance of the peace.

it is also my opinon that OC should always be done for purpose, not politics....unless part of a planned public display.

i won't post again on this thread. i admit i am not a fan of OC for SD in general (and I HATE when it is used for politics or alarm). but i don't think it should be illegal either. common sense should be enforced however. i have OC a rifle MANY times.....WITH A PURPOSE TO DO SO! and i have NEVER caused alarm or issues in doing so, that i am aware of.

as said, feel free to disagree. but i will not respond again on this thread.

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this is why i do not open carry. it makes you a target. this security guard was open carrying. it was not a deterrent and because he did not have a concealed firearm he was a target leading to the murder of a police officer by a knofe wielding nutball.

open carry i firmly believe makes you a target. i am however surpotive of OC because it makes ME less of a target if someone is ocing. oc does allow me to not have to worry about accidentally exposing my firearm or printing

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/13/new-jersey-police-officer-shot-killed-on-robbery-call/?intcmp=latestnews

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Old 07-14-2014, 03:19 PM   #16
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Well, I look at it this way.

If all I have on me is a pistol, which is usually the case, then I don't want to advertise to anyone else that all I'm armed with is a pistol if the law does not force me to open carry.

I think the element of surprise is lost anytime someone knows you have a weapon and you are alone.

Call me crazy, but I think the knife wielder in Jon's post would've killed whomever he wanted to kill because he was crazy and looking for someone to kill. Nobody is totally alert and expecting to be killed by loony toons 24/7 and so it makes little difference as to whether a weapon is carried concealed or openly.

So, if you feel the need to open carry, fine. That said, carrying firearms is not and should never be a political statement or done to cause fear or incite a response from other people. If that is what the law requires, so be it. Otherwise, why not keep would-be criminals guessing? Criminals don't advertise that they're about to attack you, unless they're stupid, and yes, many of them aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. It's not something I would ever choose to do, but to each his own.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
Otherwise, why not keep would-be criminals guessing? Criminals don't advertise that they're about to attack you, unless they're stupid, and yes, many of them aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. It's not something I would ever choose to do, but to each his own.
Consider my 85 year old father in law. He walks on a cane, parks in Handicap spots.

To a criminal, he is a soft target with no means of protecting himself (discounting our own cane expert ). When he open carries, he is no longer a soft target, but one that might actually fight back. Yes, it is possible he might lose the firearm to a brazen criminal that might attempt to take it from him, but the odds are much better that criminal will find a "softer" target to hit.

In MI, the OC movement is very active and extremely successful. We have chosen to only focusing on handgun OC. Yes, it causes some internal bickering, but we don't reject LGOC, only advocate handgun.

Personally, I do both (or all three if you consider Virginia Tuck). Depends on where I'm going, what I'm doing, and what may be more comfortable.

Jon, how many non LEO OC citizens have had their firearms taken from them?

How many OC citizens have had to use their firearm in SD vs CC citizens?

I don't have data for the second question, but I'd bet money on the number being considerably lower for OC citizens.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:45 PM   #18
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I respect JonM. He has helped me out with alot of information I needed....but also like he said dont turn it into a fight....but I open carry....thats just me I dont do it for attention or to scare anyone I do it cause thats the way i like to carry .....I get comments on it good and bad but everyone is intitled to there opinion....but I have heard alot of ppl say OC makes you a target. Thats there believe mine is different im not gonna hide my firearm that just seems to me ur afraid that u r gonna be a target and not confident that u can handle the situation when the time comes if a guy sees my firearm on my hip that plans to rob me or the store im in he just maybe might think twice once he sees mine on my hip
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:10 PM   #19
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There are also endless accounts of unarmed victims.


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Old 07-14-2014, 10:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper03 View Post
Doc has a valid point!



Common Sense!

There is a time to OC and a time to CC!

I recall one thread comment here on the FTF that advised that because the member was CO a wise A** punk confronted him personally and belligerently challenged him to DO SOMETHING BIG MAN! That is not a good situation to be in although the older gentleman handled the situation very well and I compliented him for his actions. But I could easily see it going South! And as one mentioned, a prison educated con might not think twice about attempting to take a weapon off a citizens with OC. The practice in prison to disarm the police and others. Also the Starbuck and Target issue comes up. If you a CC know one knows you are carrying and do have the ability to defend yourself and others. I personally see a great need to OC in the desert, hunting and other areas. But think it is best to CC when out in public. Simply goes back to the common sense issue and I do not want to add fuel to the Anti-Gun Liberal Socialist public's cause. Only an opinion and we all have the right to have one!



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Thanks 03! The two to three days a month I have ranger duty is when we OC, because it's Required.


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