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Old 12-10-2011, 01:38 AM   #11
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Why the fire suit? As long as he relayed the facts as they happened...

1. He felt threatened in a situation where clearly his avenue of escape was cut off by a vehicle of superior size, and I will asume for the moment, power. Most ANY reasonable person (the yardstick by which this would be measured) in the same situation WOULD feel threatened.

2. He had his young son with him, and he DID try to remove himself and his son from the conflict. He did everything he reasonably could to avoid confrontation of any kind, and protect his child.

My ONLY question is, and it can be very simply resolved: The OP said he "indicated" his presence. How was it "indicated"? Short beep on horn, or finger out the window? I am hoping and assuming it was the former...so if that is the case...he did nothing wrong. ASSUMING he relayed the facts as they happened.

As for the rest...I have to wonder what qualifies you to TEACH people how to use a firearm in SD. That is a specialized discipline and requires a pretty deep understanding of use and lethal force laws.

But...good job on the front part of the video. Glad you didn't have to use your pistol. Glad you and your boy were not hurt.

3.
I contend education is not in the teacher but in the pupil!

Just because someone doesnt have the correct "credentials" does NOT make them unfit to educate in the minor aspects of firearms safety.

I have met quite a few in other trades/professions that carried many a cert. but failed miserably at actually doing the job. (Teachers with delinquent, uneducated children of their own, welders that couldnt, etc.)

Getting some instruction from someone with hands on experience is much better than getting no instruction at all.

The OP does state "if you have never taken a gun class, you should. It will be a blast." (Not cheesy, well played IMHO)

There are those out there that cannot afford exorbinant costs associated with "firearms training". Some learning from one knowledgeable in the subject is MUCH better than none at all.
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:36 AM   #12
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OP, you are my Hero. Seriously. Very well played. I couldnt even begin to fault you on this, and I'm proud of you for wearing that T Shirt AND displaying your sidekick! (Nice Glock, BTW!)

I think that you did the right thing. You could have used your weapon to "indicate", but you didn't. Kudos.

You COULD have called the 5-0, but that could have further jeopardized you along with your son. +1!

I'm assuming that your son is young, and, even though someone here seems to think that "any 4 year old can use a phone", I think that given the situation, your lil man might have been unable up relay the proper, necessary life saving facts/information to the authorities. Young children are not adults, and as such simply cannot be expected to make split second decisions in a life or death situation ( such as describing to the police that he and his father are being assaulted by an enraged driver with a large truck and a Mag Lite).


DEFINITE GOOD JOB AND IM GLAD YOU AND YOUR SON MADE IT HOME SAFE! GOD BLESS YOU, YOUR SON, AND YOUR GLOCK!

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Old 12-10-2011, 03:52 AM   #13
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I contend education is not in the teacher but in the pupil!

Just because someone doesnt have the correct "credentials" does NOT make them unfit to educate in the minor aspects of firearms safety.

I have met quite a few in other trades/professions that carried many a cert. but failed miserably at actually doing the job. (Teachers with delinquent, uneducated children of their own, welders that couldnt, etc.)

Getting some instruction from someone with hands on experience is much better than getting no instruction at all.

The OP does state "if you have never taken a gun class, you should. It will be a blast." (Not cheesy, well played IMHO)

There are those out there that cannot afford exorbinant costs associated with "firearms training". Some learning from one knowledgeable in the subject is MUCH better than none at all.
Where did I mention "minor aspects of gun safety"? Is there such a thing as a MINOR aspect of gun safety?

I wasn't challenging or "calling out" I was simply seeking an answer to a question. Has our juggler, who made the claim in another thread that an officer "had no right to take your knife"... clearly demonstrating a complete lack of legal knowledge in that arena was going to teach self defense with a firearm. Which IS, as I mentioned a highly specialized discipline, especially when one gets into lethal force canon of law (which, oh by the way, I have taught for more years than I care to remember...to police officers). So, in this area I absolutely know what I am talking about.

I was curious, I asked.

As for your assertion that: There are those out there that cannot afford exorbinant costs associated with "firearms training". Some learning from one knowledgeable in the subject is MUCH better than none at all.

Wow...do you really believe that? Do you want to "Get y'self some larnin' on how to drive one o' them thar semi trucks" from a guy who routinely crashes his Chevy Cavalier and has never DRIVEN a semi? Do you want to learn plumbing from a landscaper?

I would say without equivocation or ANY lack of specificity that "getting some learning" from someone with NO experience, training (legal or otherwise) in something as potentially life changing and life ENDING as SD with a firearm is well...not to put too fine a point on it...STUPID.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:19 AM   #14
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I think that the OP was only speaking of "teaching" the bare basics of firearms, if actually delving that far into it.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that is what he meant. I would like to think that, since he owns his own weapon(s), he is most likely proficient enough to show someone the basic principles of finding a target, aiming, squeezing the trigger, loading/unloading/clearing......

ON THE OTHER HAND...... Simply owning his own weapon(s) and knowing how to use his own (I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS EXACT SKILLS/ABILITIES ARE) DOES NOT qualify him as a Firearms Instructor in any aspect; it also doesn't qualify him to teach SD Tactics or any type of advanced marksmanship training, SD Law, CCW, etc.

For the sake if argument, I think that we can all agree that the gentleman is competent enough to go shooting with his friend or significant other and "show" him/her the very basic principles of what a weapon does, loading/unloading/clearing, BASIC safety, and "plinking", right???

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Old 12-10-2011, 12:39 PM   #15
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I agree with what you said. Why should we be victimized by someone just because they are bigger, stronger, armed, etc. when we living within the law and not trying to cause trouble for anyone? Why should we give up what we have honestly worked for just because someone else wants it and is willing to use violence to get it? I am not talking about waving guns around. I am talking about having our constitutionally-guaranteed right to keep and bear arms and the right to use deadly force to protect life and property.

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Old 12-10-2011, 12:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AZL View Post
Where did I mention "minor aspects of gun safety"? Is there such a thing as a MINOR aspect of gun safety?

I wasn't challenging or "calling out" I was simply seeking an answer to a question. Has our juggler, who made the claim in another thread that an officer "had no right to take your knife"... clearly demonstrating a complete lack of legal knowledge in that arena was going to teach self defense with a firearm. Which IS, as I mentioned a highly specialized discipline, especially when one gets into lethal force canon of law (which, oh by the way, I have taught for more years than I care to remember...to police officers). So, in this area I absolutely know what I am talking about.

I was curious, I asked.

As for your assertion that: There are those out there that cannot afford exorbinant costs associated with "firearms training". Some learning from one knowledgeable in the subject is MUCH better than none at all.

Wow...do you really believe that? Do you want to "Get y'self some larnin' on how to drive one o' them thar semi trucks" from a guy who routinely crashes his Chevy Cavalier and has never DRIVEN a semi? Do you want to learn plumbing from a landscaper?

I would say without equivocation or ANY lack of specificity that "getting some learning" from someone with NO experience, training (legal or otherwise) in something as potentially life changing and life ENDING as SD with a firearm is well...not to put too fine a point on it...STUPID.
All i have is "WOW"! But i guess i would expect nothing less from someone that has paid the rent doing this. Just protecting your money. I get it.

So what i am to take from your post is, unless i bow down to you and your "highly specialized training" and pony up the big bucks, i should never be allowed to have or carry a gun? I'm just not qualified for it! I should never be at the range helping people get started shooting, teaching the basics of safe handling/shooting/basic marksmanship?

And they wonder why the shooting sports is dying out and the antis are gaining such a foothold.

I am not going to argue the merits of getting more training/taking a self defense shooting class. IMHO ANY and ALL education in ANY subject is a good thing.

But to say that someone isnt "qualified" to teach basic marksmanship/safety to someone with no/less knowledge is insane. Marksmanship and firearms safety is NOT the rocket science you would like to make out to be.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CarlsbadRanger06 View Post
I think that the OP was only speaking of "teaching" the bare basics of firearms, if actually delving that far into it.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that is what he meant. I would like to think that, since he owns his own weapon(s), he is most likely proficient enough to show someone the basic principles of finding a target, aiming, squeezing the trigger, loading/unloading/clearing......

ON THE OTHER HAND...... Simply owning his own weapon(s) and knowing how to use his own (I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS EXACT SKILLS/ABILITIES ARE) DOES NOT qualify him as a Firearms Instructor in any aspect; it also doesn't qualify him to teach SD Tactics or any type of advanced marksmanship training, SD Law, CCW, etc.

For the sake if argument, I think that we can all agree that the gentleman is competent enough to go shooting with his friend or significant other and "show" him/her the very basic principles of what a weapon does, loading/unloading/clearing, BASIC safety, and "plinking", right???
The points i was trying to make....
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:50 PM   #18
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I agree with what you said. Why should we be victimized by someone just because they are bigger, stronger, armed, etc. when we living within the law and not trying to cause trouble for anyone? Why should we give up what we have honestly worked for just because someone else wants it and is willing to use violence to get it? I am not talking about waving guns around. I am talking about having our constitutionally-guaranteed right to keep and bear arms and the right to use deadly force to protect life and property.
No one is disagreeing with that at all. The right to defend yourself and your loved ones is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT that is, and should be, guaranteed by, and not GRANTED by the Constitution and affirmed and protected by the government.

The problem comes in when people of NO training start espousing self defense doctrine, and techniques, and worse LAW...and people actually listen to them. "But I read it on the internet" is NOT a satisfactory defense in court.

The OP acted reasonably and correctly in the situation described in the video assuming all the facts were relayed accurately and truthfully.

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Old 12-10-2011, 12:59 PM   #19
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All i have is "WOW"! But i guess i would expect nothing less from someone that has paid the rent doing this. Just protecting your money. I get it.

So what i am to take from your post is, unless i bow down to you and your "highly specialized training" and pony up the big bucks, i should never be allowed to have or carry a gun? I'm just not qualified for it! I should never be at the range helping people get started shooting, teaching the basics of safe handling/shooting/basic marksmanship?

And they wonder why the shooting sports is dying out and the antis are gaining such a foothold.

I am not going to argue the merits of getting more training/taking a self defense shooting class. IMHO ANY and ALL education in ANY subject is a good thing.

But to say that someone isnt "qualified" to teach basic marksmanship/safety to someone with no/less knowledge is insane. Marksmanship and firearms safety is NOT the rocket science you would like to make out to be.
Not if what you are being taught is WRONG.

I am not protecting my money as you assert. I very often teach for NO CHARGE. Why? Because I think it is incredibly important for people to have access to training. More than a few times, I have taught women, older people on fixed incomes, for FREE. I have taught single moms and women who have had to leave abusive relationships who had NO OTHER MEANS of defense or ability to obtain that training...and charged them NOTING. I don't charge for CCW classes at all, when I do them,...I do ALL of them free.

My pension, that I earned, shows up whether I leave the house or not. So, I am NOT financially motivated by this. So, you can take THAT assertion (like most of the things I have seen you spout on here) and put it in the "wrong" column.

The WHOLE point I was trying to make it....IF YOU AREN'T STANDING ON FIRM GROUND when it comes to TEACHING you are doing NO ONE a service, and don't do it.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:27 PM   #20
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Not if what you are being taught is WRONG.

I am not protecting my money as you assert. I very often teach for NO CHARGE. Why? Because I think it is incredibly important for people to have access to training. More than a few times, I have taught women, older people on fixed incomes, for FREE. I have taught single moms and women who have had to leave abusive relationships who had NO OTHER MEANS of defense or ability to obtain that training...and charged them NOTING. I don't charge for CCW classes at all, when I do them,...I do ALL of them free.

My pension, that I earned, shows up whether I leave the house or not. So, I am NOT financially motivated by this. So, you can take THAT assertion (like most of the things I have seen you spout on here) and put it in the "wrong" column.

The WHOLE point I was trying to make it....IF YOU AREN'T STANDING ON FIRM GROUND when it comes to TEACHING you are doing NO ONE a service, and don't do it.
Only in your narrow point of view...

Back to my original point...i have met MANY with "proper certification" or "proper training" teaching WRONG things! In more fields than just this.

The quality of an education is in the pupil and not the teacher.
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