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Old 05-24-2011, 02:09 AM   #11
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Some heavy winter clothing maybe as much as 8 inches plus like they said ^^^^ they may not be standing square at you. If the round for some reason doesn't go straight through it will take longer for them to bleed out, as to a clean punch through will take less time for them to expire. Also one reason I carry a 357 mag.

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Old 05-24-2011, 02:13 AM   #12
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i dont feel underarmed carrying 230grn 45acp fmjs. its whats in the spare mags. the 1911 itself has the hp rounds. im a worrier and a worst caser. if im cornered and the sd turns into a holding action the badguy may be using cover. need the extra penetration to get the lead to the target.

Auslach: i dont disagree but the odds of hitting such a tiny thing are smaller than landing a head shot. i want to maximize the rounds i get center mass

i do have 380's and i do feel a bit underarmed with em but its better than a sharp stick.

im just hoping wisconsin's ccw law when its signed has provisions for OC and CCW. right now we have constitutional carry but its based off the attorney general's interpretation of the wisconsin constitution and refusal to prosecute peeps. he wont be the AG forever

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Old 05-24-2011, 02:38 AM   #13
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Jesus are we really going to go round and round with this discussion again?

I grow tired of this Rube Goldberging.

Let me ask you all this:

How many rounds fired by police officers in shoot out conditions HIT their intended target??

1 out of 4? Meaning a police officer under duress hits 25% of the time?

2 out of 4? Meaning a police officer under duress hits 50% of the time?

What about the ROUNDS THAT MISS?!?!?

No one ever wonders about over-penetration or dynamic/systemic shock or incapacitating ability for the rounds.

Why?!?!

6 inches of penetration? 8 inches? 18 inches? If there is NO media between the barrel and where the round ends up, what about THOSE rounds???

The only time this comes up is when someone is worried about shooting THROUGH some bad guy and somehow hitting the next Mother Teresa, killing her before she can change the world.

Let me paint you a little scenario.

It's a nice sunny day. You decide to head off to the Home Depot to get some parts to fix those broken fence boards and some cleaner for the siding.

Just so happens at that same exact moment the bank in the parking lot of the Home Depot is being robbed as the armored car pulled up to transfer funds.

As the robbers in question have already started shooting it out with the guards, you feel it's your obligation as a Concealed Weapon Holder to interject yourself into the fray.

Now -

Option A) Everyone WITHOUT a weapon is lining up behind the bad guys, munching popcorn, watching the show and just waiting to catch an over-penetrating bullet??

OR

Option B) Everyone WITHOUT a weapon is ducking, covering, hiding and/or running for their lives??

Which option do you REALLY think is more likely??

Carry what you can shoot well. Don't worry about "over-penetration" as the odds you will encounter a need to draw, a need to shoot, a chance of striking AND a chance of over-penetration striking another target are so infinitesimally small that you would have a better chance of getting struck by lightning WHILE winning the lottery AND sitting a top a Unicorn.

JD

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Old 05-24-2011, 03:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Jesus are we really going to go round and round with this discussion again?

I grow tired of this Rube Goldberging.

Let me ask you all this:

How many rounds fired by police officers in shoot out conditions HIT their intended target??

1 out of 4? Meaning a police officer under duress hits 25% of the time?

2 out of 4? Meaning a police officer under duress hits 50% of the time?

What about the ROUNDS THAT MISS?!?!?

No one ever wonders about over-penetration or dynamic/systemic shock or incapacitating ability for the rounds.

Why?!?!

6 inches of penetration? 8 inches? 18 inches? If there is NO media between the barrel and where the round ends up, what about THOSE rounds???

The only time this comes up is when someone is worried about shooting THROUGH some bad guy and somehow hitting the next Mother Teresa, killing her before she can change the world.

Let me paint you a little scenario.

It's a nice sunny day. You decide to head off to the Home Depot to get some parts to fix those broken fence boards and some cleaner for the siding.

Just so happens at that same exact moment the bank in the parking lot of the Home Depot is being robbed as the armored car pulled up to transfer funds.

As the robbers in question have already started shooting it out with the guards, you feel it's your obligation as a Concealed Weapon Holder to interject yourself into the fray.

Now -

Option A) Everyone WITHOUT a weapon is lining up behind the bad guys, munching popcorn, watching the show and just waiting to catch an over-penetrating bullet??

OR

Option B) Everyone WITHOUT a weapon is ducking, covering, hiding and/or running for their lives??

Which option do you REALLY think is more likely??

Carry what you can shoot well. Don't worry about "over-penetration" as the odds you will encounter a need to draw, a need to shoot, a chance of striking AND a chance of over-penetration striking another target are so infinitesimally small that you would have a better chance of getting struck by lightning WHILE winning the lottery AND sitting a top a Unicorn.

JD
^^^^This^^^^

JD is a wise man. Well said, Sir.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:30 AM   #15
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^^^This concludes todays class unless there are any more questions^^^

Thank's JD that was truly well expressed with the correct amount of sarcasim to make it funny.

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Old 05-24-2011, 03:36 AM   #16
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I appreciate all of the imput, and the "they may not be facing you squarely" thing is the part i was overlooking. So that makes sense why more penetration would be good then. I was just curious as to the logic behind this.

For the record I personally carry a 9mm with FMJ's but thats just because I practice with fmj's so i figure i should use what im best with and most comfortable with. I use a 9mm because the ammo is cheaper lol. If I had my pick of round (assuming it was in a concealabe firearm) it would probably be .45 acp or .44 magnum. But, then again, I do like the idea of having 18+rounds ready to rock.

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Old 05-24-2011, 03:45 AM   #17
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And as a happy medium and something I have done for a long time, is why I stagger load my carry weapon's magazines (usually a .45) with ball and HP rounds.

Now school is out.


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Old 05-24-2011, 04:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Why do you want penetration?
Because all the stuff that makes you work is on the inside.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
you would have a better chance of getting struck by lightning WHILE winning the lottery AND sitting a top a Unicorn.

JD
That happen to me once. Dang unicorn ran off and got hit by an 18 wheeler and some guy took my winning ticket AND cut my unicorn's horn off while I was knocked out from the lighting.
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:59 AM   #20
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Did the lightning over-penetrate, though?

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