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Old 08-11-2013, 03:36 PM   #201
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Yes and if I could be bothered I am sure I could find an example where someone accidently shot themselves or someone else because they forgot they had a round in the chamber. I witnessed a N/D where the person had a round in the chamber I remember because the bullet grazed my knee. He hadn't a clue about firearms which concerns me when I see posters on this forum telling people that the only to carry is in con 1 without knowing the background of the person they are advising their training or lack of training.
simply put, it comes down to training. a person needs to train to know that they can operate their pistol in a safe manner, with whatever type of safeties the pistol may have. AD/ND happen. IMO, 99.9% of them come from improper gun handling. they happened because someone put their finger on the trigger at the wrong time. and for the record many of us preach training to try and push the point across. guns are dangerous if improperly handled. improper handing comes from either poor training or lack of it.

just because someone can legally do something doesn't always mean they should. there are people that can legally drive, but that doesn't mean they should.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #202
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How about this, I live on a dead-end street, in a quiet,

modest neighborhood. In the house, I find it comfortable

to throw a 50 YO .22LR BUG in my pocket. I surely don't

keep one in the tube, because, IMHO, nothing will ever

happen here, it never has. But one slip-up, with a round

in the chamber, and I'll also be posting a tale of woe...
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:52 AM   #203
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In my opinion an empty pistol in a holster is a $300 hammer. I once shared a story on here of a buddy of mine who needed to draw his loaded 1911 and only had his right hand to do it. Had his weapon not been loaded he very well could be dead now.

I also carry a 1911 which are very safe to carry loaded and Im also very comfortable with it. That being said if I was to buy a Glock I probably wouldnt jump right into carrying it loaded, I would want to get used to it before I felt comfortable with.

I also sometimes carry my bersa .380, always carry it loaded as well but again Im very comfortable with it and since its DA its also very safe to carry loaded.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:27 AM   #204
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I haven't read every post in this thread, but the first 10 pages were enough for me. Some are convinced that carrying with one in the chamber is the only sane decision. Others have the opposite view. Both sides offer examples of what can happen if you carry the other way.

Here's another slant on the problem. When you're talking about a high capacity pistol, missing one round out of 20 (19+1 like a full size XDm 9mm) would not be that big a deal. But missing one round out of 8 (7+1 like many 1911s) is a bigger deal. When states start legislating magazine capacity down to 10 or 7 or ???, that one round begins to take on a little more significance for all of us.

Personally, I carry 13+1 in my XDm 9mm compact. It has a trigger safety, a grip safety and an array of internal safeties, all of which are secondary to the only real safety: a straight finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot. In my opinion, all guns can and should be equipped with that one. When I draw my pistol it is ready to shoot. It doesn't matter whether I will be firing it with both hands, or strong hand only, or weak hand only, the tool will be ready to work.

If you carry with an empty chamber, you will certainly need to rack the slide to chamber a round before you can fire it. Most of the time this would be done with the off hand and could be done pretty quickly. Quickly enough? That's another debate. But I believe there are too many things that can happen to make your other hand unavailable to rack that slide when needed. Injury, fending off BG, restraining panicked child, etc. One handed slide racking is a difficult task at best, and not likely to be done quickly and successfully under stress.

It just seems to me that carrying in a way that eliminates the need for such consideration (at least for the first several rounds) is a better choice. That's why I choose to carry +1.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #205
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If you don't have sufficient training to carry a loaded firearm, then you shouldn't be carrying or using a firearm, period.

If you don't trust yourself to carry a loaded firearm, then carry a club or knife with you if it's legal to do so.

Basically, there's no reason to have a firearm with you if it can't be immediately utilized in the intended manner.

No amount of what-iffing will help you in a situation where you really need a firearm but don't have one because it's not loaded.

If you managed to find yourself in a situation where you had time to load a firearm prior to using it, then you probably also had time to do a variety of other things not related to using a firearm. If you found yourself in a situation where you had time to load your firearm, consider yourself extremely lucky that the person who attacked you wasn't intent on hurting you.

I'm not aware of any police agency in the US that carries unloaded firearms. Our military units, foreign police and militaries have standard operating procedures that, while not based on reality, must be followed. Sometimes this includes carrying unloaded firearms.

Incidentally, the Russians created a special holster for their Makarov pistols, named EFA if I recall correctly, that loads the firearm during the act of unholstering and disengages the thumb safety. That would be the only type of unloaded firearms carrying that I would consider acceptable.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:47 AM   #206
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I can't come up with a reason not to carry chambered. Since I first got my permit I've carried chambered and I feel comfortable with a striker fired pistol. When I went shopping for a new M&P I waited for one with no thumb safety because I trust my training. I could see a safety on a pocket pistol or like a 1911 with a 3# SA trigger but a mile long 6.5# trigger in a proper holster? Why carry empty?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:48 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512

Incidentally, the Russians created a special holster for their Makarov pistols, named EFA if I recall correctly, that loads the firearm during the act of unholstering and disengages the thumb safety. That would be the only type of unloaded firearms carrying that I would consider acceptable.
I saw that holster talked about on a show somewhere... I don't remember what show...

Really neat idea. But honestly I don't see it as much different than carrying a loaded firearm. As long as its in the holster, its generally not going to fire, even with a round chambered. Remove it from the holster and its ready to go? How's that different than just carrying condition 1? Either way the end is the exact same: you have a firearm, unholstered, torpedo in the tube, safety off. It's ready to go.

Neat idea but it just seems like its whole purpose is to appeal to PCness.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:17 PM   #208
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Quote:
Why carry empty?
I can think of a few reasons.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:10 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manta

I can think of a few reasons.
Can you even carry in the UK ?
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:16 PM   #210
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Can you even carry in the UK ?

Four categories:
1. Police/Intelligence
2. Military/Royal guards
3. Criminal
4. Terrorist (IRA)

Wonder which one Manta is....
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